Sighting In My Triumph

[Muley Hunter]

I wasn't claiming one was better then the other. Just that they aren't the same powder.

Although if I was tempted to use pellets i'd pick the WH over the T7 pellets.

 

[GM54-120]

I would not for one reason, 72 WhiteHots cost as much or more than 100 T7 pellets. They also only come in 1 size, 50gr equivalent.

Both are equally corrosive.

 

[Muley Hunter]

Just off the top of my head. A bottle of BH 209 will give around 43 100gr loads. The WH would be 36 loads, but is a bit cheaper to buy than BH, so it's close for expense. From what i've read in reviews the WH seems to be more accurate than T7, and has a softer fouling, so the crud ring easy easy to load through.

I'd never use T7. I'm thinking between WH and BH. I'm only going to hunt the rifle seasons with the Wolf, so i have no restrictions on what powder and bullets I use now. Scope is the same deal. I have a license to use a scope in ML season, but I could never bring myself to use it. I have no problem using a scope in rifle season.

Anyway, i'm just thinking out loud. I've never tried pellets, and I have an itch to try them. I'm curious.

 

[ronlaughlin]

Just off the top of my head. A bottle of BH 209 will give around 43 100gr loads...

Umm..actually, a bottle would provide about 62 100g loads.

 

[GM54-120]

Just off the top of my head. A bottle of BH 209 will give around 43 100gr loads...

Umm..actually, a bottle would provide about 62 100g loads.

And a 100gr load of BH209 is quite a bit faster than 2 Whitehots. So lets reduce the BH209 load down to roughly 80gr by volume and the price difference per shot is substantial.

 

[Muley Hunter]

Just off the top of my head. A bottle of BH 209 will give around 43 100gr loads...

Umm..actually, a bottle would provide about 62 100g loads.

Break that down for me. 7000gr in a lb. That's 70 100gr loads for 16oz. BH is 10z. How do you get 62 loads?

 

[Muley Hunter]

Just off the top of my head. A bottle of BH 209 will give around 43 100gr loads...

Umm..actually, a bottle would provide about 62 100g loads.

And a 100gr load of BH209 is quite a bit faster than 2 Whitehots. So lets reduce the BH209 load down to roughly 80gr by volume and the price difference per shot is substantial.

I'd like to see the chrono results of that. I feel they're closer than you think.

We all know Toby isn't a reliable source, but when he was being sponsored by Western he did some chrono test comparing powders. If anything you'd think he'd learn in the direction of BH, but had T7 just a bit behind T7. I've seen test from others comparing T7 to WH, and the WH came out ahead by quite a bit. That leads me to believe WH and BH are close together for fps.

BH is a good powder. That's a given. It just rubs me wrong with the price they get. I see $30 as the cheapest price for it with some paying close to $40. That's for 10oz. Figure out what you'd be paying for 16oz. As far as I know no other powder whether it's smokeless, or BP sub comes in anything but 16oz. Who does Western think they're kidding? Fill the bottle up like everybody else, and lets see if you have the guts to charge as much as you're getting now. Would everybody pay $50 a bottle? I don't think so, but that's what they're doing now. I don't know about you, but no matter how good a product is. I don't like being ripped off.

 

[BuckDoeHunter]

post i found online:
------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for your interest in Blackhorn 209.
10 oz. = 4,375 gr. by weight. In a 120 volume charge there is approximately 84 gr. by weight. There would be about 52 120 volume charges in a can of Blackhorn 209.

Best regards,
Don Luhr
Western Powders
------------------------------------------------------

I think you are confusing volume and weight

100gr by weight equals a 143gr by volume of BH209

so 100gr by volume = 70gr by weight

so 4375/70=62.5 charges in a bottle if you use 100gr charges by volume

 

[Muley Hunter]

post i found online:
------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for your interest in Blackhorn 209.
10 oz. = 4,375 gr. by weight. In a 120 volume charge there is approximately 84 gr. by weight. There would be about 52 120 volume charges in a can of Blackhorn 209.

Best regards,
Don Luhr
Western Powders
------------------------------------------------------

I think you are confusing volume and weight

100gr by weight equals a 143gr by volume of BH209

so 100gr by volume = 70gr by weight

so 4375/70=62.5 charges in a bottle if you use 100gr charges by volume

Ok, i'll give you that one. BH is cheaper.

 

[GM54-120]

No need to use TBs ballistic data, i have my own ProChrony and so do many people on the forums. You should buy one to verify the info.

Since i dont use WhiteHots or any pellets for that matter, i found this one and i imagine you wont object to his chrono readings.

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/black-p ... arrel.html

How about IMR's claimed FPS
http://www.imrpowder.com/whitehots-data ... CKBOX_1=on
250gr Hornady SST / ML 2 pellets 1714fps
https://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/muzzleloadi ... CKBOX_1=on
250gr Hornady SST / ML 2 T7 or Pyro pellets 1785fps
Thats rather deceptive advertising on the IMRs website since they claim Whitehots are faster. Their own load data fails to back it up with a 250gr SST.

You dont think 80gr of BH209 will match or beat 1700fps with a 250gr SST? Well i guess you will need to buy a chrono for positive undisputed proof.

 

[BuckDoeHunter]

I am guessing to be priced competitively with other powders.

I use to pay $30, now up to $35.

If 16oz, it would be around $56 a bottle. I think many would skip right past it and grab the cheaper stuff without realizing some of the cost factors associated with them.

 

[Muley Hunter]

GM.......As I said. BH is a good powder, and I thought the price was closer to pellets. Guess not. This is my first experience with even thinking about pellets, because they aren't legal here in muzzy season.

I also found more chrono tests, it seems the WH lags behind T7, but T7 seems to be equal to BH, and even beats it in some tests I found.

I'll probably continue to use BH, but i'd sure like an explanation of why the bottles have only 10oz.

 

[Muley Hunter]

I am guessing to be priced competitively with other powders.

I use to pay $30, now up to $35.

If 16oz, it would be around $56 a bottle. I think many would skip right past it and grab the cheaper stuff without realizing some of the cost factors associated with them.

Exactly my point. Everybody is paying the high price without realizing just how high it is. Why is the powder that high? What added costs are there to make it? If Western could explain why it's so high, it might be easier to take.

 

[GM54-120]

Im very unhappy about the price too and that is why i go another route when it comes to recreational shooting. IMO BH209 speeds are closer to advertised than Hodgdon/IMR ML products, especially when it comes to 300gr bullet data. They are all somewhat inflated but when your own ballistic data (T7 vs WHs) does not support your claim or the difference is minimal.

I call that false advertising and in this case price gouging. They also say DONT USE 3 PELLETS but then they use 3 IMR pellet load data to prop up their claimed performance advantage numbers. This is unethical marketing at best and possibly dangerous depending on who you believe.

If Western could explain why it's so high, it might be easier to take.

Thats simple, its the only viable contender that competes very favorably against Hodgdon/IMR. They own the largest share of the market including Goex. When your product is better, you can charge more. Alliants BlackMZ sure isnt putting up a good fight and its over $30/lb now. Western is a tiny company compared to IMR yet makes a better ML powder substitute.

 

[ENCORE50A]

I use 3 pellets........ 3 T7M pellets :d'oh!:

 

[Muley Hunter]

I use 3 pellets........ 3 T7M pellets :d'oh!:

Have you left a will? oke:

 

[GM54-120]

I use 3 pellets........ 3 T7M pellets :d'oh!:

Only because you cant use BH209 according to Mr Johnston. :lol:

 

[ENCORE50A]

I use 3 pellets........ 3 T7M pellets :d'oh!:

Have you left a will? oke:

I could shoot 4 50gr pellets......... :wink:

 

[Muley Hunter]

Ok, my order with Carlos is changed to BH.

So much for the pellet experiment.

 

[ENCORE50A]

I use 3 pellets........ 3 T7M pellets :d'oh!:

Only because you cant use BH209 according to Mr Johnston. :lol:

I'm confident I could, if... I only used the brass one time.

BUT............ for a pellet burner, I'll shoot with anyone else shooting pellets artyman: