sizing copper bullets ?

[JeffB1961]

i'll be shooting sabots at first ..... but with a Brux .45 barrel , when i'm ready to shoot with full bore pure (or mostly pure) copper do i NEED to get a die or can i trust the bullet diameter advertised for brux 45 barrels ? we can hunt with lead here but i don't want to be concerned with possible lead particles or smearing on edible parts ..... everything isn't for everybody .... . or will i only be able to shoot lead or jacketed bullets if they have to be sized ? i recall a comment here about monoflexes being too hard to size without torching them because they're an alloy and pure copper is softer ... or something to that effect , i think . BTW i'm not at all interested in torching bullets to size them at this time .

if i really really really need to get a die (down the road) is there anything better for similar money or maybe just a little more than the $145 hankins kit ?
https://hanksprecisiongunparts.com/p/smooth-bullet-sizing-die-complete-kit-45-long-3-120-in-blue
thanks , jeff

 

[gle3105]

Jeff, I’m assuming since you got a Brux barrrel you’ll be shooting smokeless. I also assume you know the speed limitations on shooting lead. Gas checked or not.
Me personally would stay away using lead. Especially with a Brux.
Sizer.
Buy a Hankins and you’ll not regret IMO. Been lots of posts on MML about sizers. I have four types. The Hankins is my first go to.

I load a bunch of other stuff and one of the presses I use is a LEE APP.
I posted on MML about it for sizing . The Lee APP press with their bullet sizers work darn good. The dies are bought diameter specific. These are not the dies that fit in. 7/8- 14 press btw.They are not expensive.
Different bullets may need a different “squeeze”.
Enjoy that barrel!

 

[BuckDoeHunter]

Yes, you need to get a die, it opens up many more possibilities when selecting bullets.

No, I would not trust the advertised diameter. Some Barnes bullets, like the TEZ line, run small. I could use those in my McGowen .45 barrel, from package to bore, after I knurled them. In my .45 Brux barrels, they are too big and need to be sized. All the other copper bullets I have tried, XPB's, TSX's, BCB's, Cutting Edge, Hornady, all needed to be sized for my Brux barrels.

I have only used Swinglock dies, I have both smooth-form and full-form dies, they work very well for me. I have read good things about Hankins dies and would not hesitate to order from him If I needed another one.

 

[JeffB1961]

thanks folks . i'll start with 777 fffg and i'll go to smokeless after i get used to that . i'm jumping into deep water for my first ML (other than a loaned indefinitely 2003 optima) because i was very disappointed with a MRX i got a few months ago , that was a present , that i was fortunately able to return for the money . big thumbs up to MidwayUSA for that ! anyway , i'm a ML newbie and i want something that will do whatever i could hope to do with it with plenty of room to grow with it . i've shot a few dozen rounds with the old CVA so i'm comfortable (but not cocky/careless) with 777 powder and the patriot looks to operate very similarly so i'm good there . this thread is for getting a idea of what i'll need to get started smokeless with it when i'm ready . i only need to get 40/10mm bullets and light blue sabots to shoot with 777 . yeah .. gotta lot to learn for smokeless but i'm not in a hurry . will probably be late fall or next year before i try smokeless since i won't have my 45 till summer .

 

[ElDiablo]

Jeff, if you’re going to try shooting sized bullets, bullet-to-bore, you’ll really need a sizing die. As for sizing monometals like Barnes without annealing, good luck. I haven’t been able to do that. I think even if you could get them sized for your bore you’ll still have a much easier time getting a jacketed bullet to shoot well.

If I wanted to shoot a Barnes, I’d use a .40 in a sabot. That will be a great set up for you and way easier to get to shoot well. My .45 shoots the .40 195 gr Barnes very well.

As Greg said, I’d stay away from lead.

 

[Hatchet Jack]

You are correct about the Monoflex bullets. Almost impossible to size. Might even damage your sizer if not careful.
I shoot 250 and 290 gr Barnes TEZ bullets from my .45 cal Brux. They shoot great and are very easy to size.
I size mine to where they barely slip down the barrel. Then I put a slight knurl on them between 2 files.

 

[MeatMachine]

I ordered the hankins 45cal sizer kit this past Friday. I thought about the new lee app sizing dies but I wanted complete control over the bullet size down to the last 1ten thousand of an inch. I do have a cva apex 45-70 barrel that fits the barnes 250 to 290gr bullets perfectly for muzzleloader use but for the life of me I can’t get my head around taking a perfectly good center fire barrel and converting it into a muzzleloader.

 

[smokepolehall]

thanks folks . i'll start with 777 fffg and i'll go to smokeless after i get used to that . i'm jumping into deep water for my first ML (other than a loaned indefinitely 2003 optima) because i was very disappointed with a MRX i got a few months ago , that was a present , that i was fortunately able to return for the money . big thumbs up to MidwayUSA for that ! anyway , i'm a ML newbie and i want something that will do whatever i could hope to do with it with plenty of room to grow with it . i've shot a few dozen rounds with the old CVA so i'm comfortable (but not cocky/careless) with 777 powder and the patriot looks to operate very similarly so i'm good there . this thread is for getting a idea of what i'll need to get started smokeless with it when i'm ready . i only need to get 40/10mm bullets and light blue sabots to shoot with 777 . yeah .. gotta lot to learn for smokeless but i'm not in a hurry . will probably be late fall or next year before i try smokeless since i won't have my 45 till summer .

With a sml i prefer the smokeless powder to Blk. n subs. Its not a big thing, i pour 32 gr of 4759 down the bore n drop a dry wool wad on top. Put my 200xtp in blue sabot push down til seated n shoot. They are good to an easy 2600 fps, would do 2700 fps just keep the barrel cool between shots. I don't shoot blk n subs from my sml unless the State regs say i have to

 

[txhunter58]

I am moving more to Lead free in centerfire rifles. But I have not seen an issue with lead muzzleloading bullets. Especially not with lead alloys. They tend to hold together better at Muzzy speeds. Haven’t seen them create an issue. The bullets aren’t moving fast enough to “blow up” and scatter lead in the meat

That said I shoot blackpowder subs at moderate speeds. Not sure what smokeless speeds would do to bullets.

 

[GoexBlackhorn]

Always best to keep lead out of the bore, when using either near / at maximum blackpowder substitute volumes or smokeless powders.

There really needs to be a sense of Smokepole Rocket Science, when purchasing a package of T/C Cheapshot bullets. If nobodys around to teach the new ML purchaser and/or had no idea that forums like this one exist on the internet, then just be prepared to invest heavily in bore cleaners, to remove the mess what built-in lead does to bore interiors, especially the deeper lands & grooves of yesterday's traditional muzzleloaders.

Todays inlines are much easier to keep clean inside that bore. It's easier to remove the lead than for a newbie muzzleloader enthusiast to figure out if he / she should be purchasing a water soluble bore cleaner / oil, versus-that of an oil base assortment like Montana Extreme.

(End result)...
Keep reading this board and study - study - study it. I've been shooting MLs since 92' and I'm still learnin' things. And lastly..... never be the Stubborn One (like me)...... who spent a few years determined to use Blackhorn 209 blackpowder successfully, using water solubles inside the bore.

For three years, I tried to rid myself of those darn BH209 hang-fires and instead of changing cleaning / storing products for my bore, I took about 75% of my leftover Blackhorn 209 powder and sprinkled it loosely on my back yard lawn with a fertilizer spreader.

I think I got all that stubborness and refusal to concede from my Dad....lol

 

[JeffB1961]

thanks for the replies folks .
i was looking at budget/cheap presses that will only be used for resizing bullets . the lee hand press is said to be handy for taking to the range and such since it doesn't need to be mounted . but i wonder about the effort . i'm 61 and my shoulders ain't what they used to be . but i did build 118 ft of wood picket fence last fall alone and did downgrade to 50lb bags of concrete rather than the 80s i used to tote 2 at a time .

anyhow ... anyone tried these or have an opinion ?
https://www.brownells.com/reloading...ies/reloading-presses/breech-lock-hand-press/and i'm looking at these two that will have to be mounted .
https://www.brownells.com/reloading...loading-presses/breech-lock-challenger-press/https://www.brownells.com/reloading/reloading-presses-accessories/reloading-presses/partner-press/the partner will use hanks short stem according to his site .
is the "breech lock" on the challenger a good thing or bad ?

BTW will i need a different sizer for each bullet ?
or should one size fit all ?
or will i need to resize for each different bullet ?
or is that hair splitting i won't have to worry about for a while ?

 

[GM54-120]

They are good to an easy 2600 fps, would do 2700 fps just keep the barrel cool between shots.

Thats very very fast for that load. I didnt get that much speed with quite a bit more power. More like 2400fps from a 26" of usable barrel. Couldnt even get that much with N110 with the same amount of powder.

 

[GM54-120]

the lee hand press is said to be handy for taking to the range and such since it doesn't need to be mounted . but i wonder about the effort . i'm 61 and my shoulders ain't what they used to be

If i can do it you can to. 60 and a bad back. I sure aint no gorrila either.

I do bullets like Parkers, XTPs and even take 458s down in 2 steps with just a Lee Hand press.

BTW you want a cheap easy simple load to shoot? SML ONLY NOT FOR SMOKERS!!!
200gr XTP
Harvester Light Blue
32gr N110 with a max of 35gr (may need a wad at 35gr) but 32gr is good for around 2300fps and its rock solid dependable. Recoil is almost nothing in a heavier sml.

Thats 218 shots from a pound of powder. And VV powders ares around 40$-50$ per pound. Buy 2lbs from Grafs and even with Hazmat its way cheaper than BH209 per shot. SML ONLY NOT FOR SMOKERS!!!

 

[JeffB1961]

i almost picked up some 180 XTPs in basspro last week , 100 for $25 but i was looking for the 200s i've seen mentioned here . would there be much difference . i do want something cheap to punch paper with . lite blues are on the to get list . i'll give the hand press some more google time , thanks .

 

[GM54-120]

You will be fine with the 180s for plinking but i dont think ive shot any in twists faster than 1-28.

The other 200gr 40cal is the HAP from Hornady. Its basically a XTP with no expansion slits in the hollow point. So its actually slightly tougher than the XTP. Nosler also sells a 200gr 40cal. Its also a really good plinker.

Sabot loads are great for building up SML experience and have a added safety factor to some extent.

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

i'll be shooting sabots at first ..... but with a Brux .45 barrel , when i'm ready to shoot with full bore pure (or mostly pure) copper do i NEED to get a die or can i trust the bullet diameter advertised for brux 45 barrels ? we can hunt with lead here but i don't want to be concerned with possible lead particles or smearing on edible parts ..... everything isn't for everybody .... . or will i only be able to shoot lead or jacketed bullets if they have to be sized ? i recall a comment here about monoflexes being too hard to size without torching them because they're an alloy and pure copper is softer ... or something to that effect , i think . BTW i'm not at all interested in torching bullets to size them at this time .

if i really really really need to get a die (down the road) is there anything better for similar money or maybe just a little more than the $145 hankins kit ?
https://hanksprecisiongunparts.com/p/smooth-bullet-sizing-die-complete-kit-45-long-3-120-in-blue
thanks , jeff

 

[smokepolehall]

Thats very very fast for that load. I didnt get that much speed with quite a bit more power. More like 2400fps from a 26" of usable barrel. Couldnt even get that much with N110 with the same amount of powder.

We have gotten our signals crossed. I was saying sabots can be used up into that area of speed, Steve White out of Ar. has done years of shooting n research with the sabots n many diff powders. Now my loads of 32 gr of 4759 is around 1840-1900 fps area. My Bluedot of 17 - 22 gr gets up abit faster n i use the DI BP. I also use VV110 up to 37 gr with the 195-200 gr bullets.

 

[GM54-120]

Ok i got ya. Ive shot sabots to around 2800fps. N120 will get them there no problemo. The faster powders will top out around 2400 without some tinkering. Even then you probably cant break 2500fps (reliably) before sabots start shredding. Some barrels will be a little more forgiving than others too. Really not sure how well a 6r Brux is gunna compare in that sense to say a Douglas 8 land 1-22 Prem XX for an example.

 

[smokepolehall]

Like many others here, i don't push lead bullets/conicals fast through inlines or sml's. I only use them in sabots. I do use them in Traditional smokers, i just wring them out. If i need something that fast i just use my sml.

 

[ENCORE50A]

BTW will i need a different sizer for each bullet ?................................. Nope, if you have an adjustable die
or should one size fit all ? .............................................................................. No.
or will i need to resize for each different bullet ? ................................. Yes
or is that hair splitting i won't have to worry about for a while ?