Some range results, BH209, Omega, Encore, 25ACP ignition....

[smong2000]

I did my 1st range session with BH209 and Win209 primers this morning in my Encore and Omega. The Omega is sub MOA anytime with 250 TMZ or Shockwaves and 100 grains (vol.) T7 FFF. I had to cut the BH209 down to 90 grains but had no problem getting honest .25 CTC at 50 yds with 250 Shockwaves so it should be good to go. It will be interesting to see how fast they are.

The Encore is new to me so it took some fiddling (tried 250 SW, 200 SW, 240 XTP, 300 XTP, 240 Speers) with 90 and 100 grain BH209 (vol). It was outstanding with the 240 Speers, green Sabots and 90 grains and put 3 in a ragged hole at 50yds. Only OK with 200 SW, blue sabots(1" -ish) and 100 grains and just awful with everything else and 100 grains. This barrel is tight and fussy. The previous owner had it turned down and fluted so it may not act 'typical' for and Encore.

No chrony today but it was still a blast and I have an excuse to do it again.

Something interesting to me was that BH209 shot best with the loosest fitting loads in both rifles. The Omega is much looser that the Encore and the Speers practically dropped down the bore of the Encore so I didn't even try them in her. I'm really likeing the .429 Speers in the Encore and next time may give them a shot in the Omega.

Another note of interest is that I tried the .25 ACP with CCI mag rifle primers with BH209 and it is not acceptable for my Omega. Very slow ignition, snap/bang, not conducive to accuracy :shock: so it came out after 3 shots.

After 18 shots with no swab the Encore shot the same (POI and group)as the 1st round. At shot 22 I got a slow ignition and didn't want to clean the plug so retired it for the day.

Here's my net;
90 grains by volume, 240-250gr --->>> sub MOA in my guns
100 " " , 200 gr --> maybe MOA or just over
Loose fit bullets were definitely better in both rifles
- NO to .25 ACP ignition, very marginal at 81 degrees
Oh, a very expensive session, but worth every penny. :lol:

 

[Semisane]

Good report smong. I've been wondering about .25 ACP ignition.

Anyone else have any experience with the .25 ACP & BH?

 

[Busta]

Good report smong. I've been wondering about .25 ACP ignition.

Anyone else have any experience with the .25 ACP & BH?

Yep!

 

[sabotloader]

Something interesting to me was that BH209 shot best with the loosest fitting loads in both rifles.

This seems odd to me. In my very brief experiance with BH-209 - it has been more efficiently with a tighter fitting load than a loose. With loose loads I would always get a bit of a hang fire. As the loads tightened so did the efficiency of the powder and of course the velocity increased.

Since Bh-209 is basically a smokeless progressive powder that has been engineered to match the equivelent loads of BP and the subs. A progressive powder needs compression to continue to burn effecently and longer than BP or the subs - developing more velocity.

Just thinking out loud...

 

[UtahRob]

Good report smong. I've been wondering about .25 ACP ignition.

Anyone else have any experience with the .25 ACP & BH?

Everything that i have read about BH 209 is you need a regular ""209 "" primer, not the Klean Bore .or 777 or .25 primers . You will get hang fire every time with those . As far as i concerned the . 25 acp is a thing of the past and no longer needed with BH 209 now . I have a .25 acp breach plug and brass for my encore that i have never used . If anyone wants one , make me a offer and i will ship it to you . Bought it but never used it or need it , even with Pyrodex .

 

[smong2000]

Yup, that's what I expected, but not what I saw....

Something interesting to me was that BH209 shot best with the loosest fitting loads in both rifles.

This seems odd to me. In my very brief experiance with BH-209 - it has been more efficiently with a tighter fitting load than a loose. With loose loads I would always get a bit of a hang fire. As the loads tightened so did the efficiency of the powder and of course the velocity increased.

Since Bh-209 is basically a smokeless progressive powder that has been engineered to match the equivelent loads of BP and the subs. A progressive powder needs compression to continue to burn effecently and longer than BP or the subs - developing more velocity.

Just thinking out loud...

Well this is my 1st exposure to this stuff and I approached it with little background information so I'm 'discovering' stuff that is history and also maybe doing some dumb stuff and getting unexpected results.
I recovered the sabots from each round and the black ones (really, really tight) were trashed and even the bases were badly split. The green ones and blue from the 200 gr were all intact with the bases well expanded but not split. How tight I'm talking about is 'oh crap it's stuck and I'm going to break my range rod' tight :shock: My theory is that tight is 'relative' and at 80+ degrees and with a hot barrel the plastic is soft enough to make a really good seal even if they feel loose going in. You've got me really anxious to run some rounds through the chrony. I was getting accuracy but maybe no speed. I think I'll also put some loads on ice and try them through a cold barrel.
I weighed out my good load and it was 63 grains which seems really light compared to T7. The powder measure was old and hard to read so my volume may have been off 5 grains but the weight is correct.

 

[Lee 9]

sabotloader
I think that may have to do with the ingnition system involved the Omega and the Triump will fire dependably with loads that are to loose for real good accuracy, but the System One is touchy about having a tight fit with sabot bullet combo. Lee

 

[sabotloader]

smong2000

I think your explanation of tight/loose clears a little up for me. When I was thinking you were saying tight - I certainly was not thinking "Oh no stuck" tight.... and conversly loose to me is when the ram rod weight and a little finger pressure is all that is needed to push the bullet down.

I need to get out and shoot some in the Omega - but it is just to darn hot... I probably will not be making the switch anytime soon as T7 works very well for me and I can not justify the added cost. But all of that might change this year as the new production runs of T7 begins to come on the market, with the cost of fuel T7 may rise in price also... this economy sucks...

 

[smong2000]

Cost comparison of BH209 vs T7 loose (Vt prices)

I just calculated what it cost me to shoot both propellants.

given,

approx. 7000 grains / lb and $22 per lb of T7 and $29 per 10 oz (0.62 lbs)

T7 - 81 grain charge -- $ 0.26 per shot

BH209 - 63 grain charge -- $ 0.42 per shot

Not really too bad, but it sure hurts when you spill some
Now add $1.00 a shot for Barnes bullets, or $0.70 for SWs, ouch!!! :shock:
Those Speers are looking better by the minute at $0.30 including sabots...

 

[sabotloader]

smong2000

Plus - add in another factor...if I just shot ML's during hunting season and an occasional target shoot the cost would not be a factor... but for me I choose to shoot quite a bit. On the average I will shoot up 4/5 containers of T7 during the year. And yep! I have made the switch to Gold Dots for all shooting except hunting - still stuck on Noslers...

And after my last experiance with BH - T7 still remains easier to clean up - the hard carbon ring it left was really tough to get out of the reciever. If the costs were equal - the carbon ring would not be a problem and T7 would be put aside.