Weak Ignition

[patinAZ]

Was out trying to dial in my Lyman GPR Signature 54 today. Last time out, I settled on 100 grains of GOEX FFG, Remington #11 caps .530 ball, .015 patch with mink oil. With that combo, I was grouping tightly at 50 yards.

So today, I was using the same combo at 100 yards trying to dial in. On one occasion, I had an ignition so light and recoil less that if it weren't for the smoke and the fact my range rod bottomed in the barrel, I would have thought it was a dry ball.

There was nothing on target and even though I was swabbing between shots, this time the barrel was fouled 2-3 times more. It was bad. I removed and cleaned a pretty gunked up nipple. It seemed like a charge that didn't fully ignite.

I thought maybe switching to magnum #11 caps might help, and the next several shots with magnums were eventless.

Then it happened again with the same load and magnum caps. I would have chocked the first instance to a weak percussion cap, but happening again with a magnum cap?

Anyone experience the same?

I don't have any experience with other powders other than the GOEX as I'm new at this.

I do have some Swiss and Old Eynsford being delivered next week.

 

[sdporter]

Sounds like, for whatever reason, you had some moisture that didn’t get fully dried up and wet your powder. What are you swabbing with? I use Windex and just lightly moisten the patch, but you gotta be careful as you get to the breach or you’ll get it stuck.

 

[patinAZ]

I was swabbing with one moist patch water/balistol mix, followed by 3-4 dry patches between each shot. And I always swab with rifle in a horizontal holder with butt end slightly higher than bore end. I was even using a smaller jag to get into the breach area.

Moistened powder does make sense though.

 

[SupplySgt65]

How many caps/shots through your nipple?

 

[patinAZ]

This session, about a dozen total. Overall? This is my 3rd time out with rifle. Under 50 rounds total.

 

[deermanok]

Definitely sounds like moisture. When I'm at the range, I only use dry patches to swab between shots. If I ever use anything damp, I always pop a couple caps before reloading.

 

[Nit Wit]

Why so much powder?
Nit Wit

 

[Idaholewis]

I was even using a smaller jag to get into the breach area.

What you said here is what I believe is Happening, Moisture in the Breech. You should ALWAYS Use the Proper Jag that STOPS at the Breech Plug Shoulder, You DON’T want to enter the Powder Chamber with a Damp Patch, The correct Jag will Stop short of it.

I also Swab between Shots for Best Accuracy, But i use HIGH Content Isopropyl Alcohol, Either 91% Store Bought. Or Better yet, HEET In the Red Bottle (For treating Gas Tank) HEET in the Red Bottle is like 99% Isopropyl Alcohol, it Dries REALLY Fast. I run 2 Damp Patches, and 2 Dry.

After you are Done Swabbing and Drying, Point your Rifle Straight at the Ground and Pop 1 Cap off, You will see Fouling/Crud trickle out on the Ground. Dump your Powder Charge in, And TAP TAP TAP on the Side of the Rifle, this is to Make sure that Powder has Settled under the Nipple Good. Now load your Projectile, Cap & Fire. If you follow this Simple Regimen your Rifle Will go off without a Hitch

 

[45-70]

in my Gibbs always snapped a cap and i used #11 CCI Mag caps

 

[patinAZ]

What you said here is what I believe is Happening, Moisture in the Breech. You should ALWAYS Use the Proper Jag that STOPS at the Breech Plug Shoulder, You DON’T want to enter the Powder Chamber with a Damp Patch, The correct Jag will Stop short of it.

I also Swab between Shots for Best Accuracy, But i use HIGH Content Isopropyl Alcohol, Either 91% Store Bought. Or Better yet, HEET In the Red Bottle (For treating Gas Tank) HEET in the Red Bottle is like 99% Isopropyl Alcohol, it Dries REALLY Fast. I run 2 Damp Patches, and 2 Dry.

After you are Done Swabbing and Drying, Point your Rifle Straight at the Ground and Pop 1 Cap off, You will see Fouling/Crud trickle out on the Ground. Dump your Powder Charge in, And TAP TAP TAP on the Side of the Rifle, this is to Make sure that Powder has Settled under the Nipple Good. Now load your Projectile, Cap & Fire. If you follow this Simple Regimen your Rifle Will go off without a Hitch

The patch I was using for the breech area was dry and used only after swabbing the bore (with a 54 jag) several times as noted in my OP. I wrapped a dry patch around a smaller caliber bore brush to get in there. Those never came out with more than a little bit of fouling.

What I had gotten away from was popping a cap between shots.

What I'm trying to accomplish is the best first shot/clean barrel accuracy. I plan on bringing this rifle along with me on my elk hunt next month.

I will definitely try swabbing with alcohol next time.

 

[patinAZ]

Why so much powder?
Nit Wit

At 50 yards, it was giving me the best accuracy. I start at 70 and went to 110.

 

[Confederate rifleman]

My TC hawken was giving me FITS with misfires. No obvious reason for it.
I swab with alcohol and don't get into the breech recess.
However. Once the round count got above 50, the misfires dropped off dramatically. After 75 rounds nere to be seen again.
Now this rifle was n.i.b. when I got it. But I swapped out the nipple for a Tresco. Great nipples! All I use, in fact. BUT their apertures are quite small compared to stainless/ carbon steel nipples. The problem with misfires was the small aperture restriction flame volume. The nipple has opened a bit and ignition is superb now.
What I'm doing now is taking the nipples used on my Firehawk and using them for the Hawken. Its working very well. Try a different nipple as well as alcohol stabbing and not getting into the breech recess, and i believe you issues will resolve.

 

[idahoron]

Are you fully cleaning the rifle after you shoot it?

This session, about a dozen total. Overall? This is my 3rd time out with rifle. Under 50 rounds total.

Are you fully cleaning it after your done shooting for the day?

Between the mink oil, ballistol your load doesn't like what your doing.

Then you said you don't pop caps between swabbing.
That is a mistake. Your not clearing the gunk out of the breech area when it is moist.
Here is a video that explains how I field clean while I'm target shooting.



The only barrel that this method didn't work well with is the barrel I gave @Idaholewis That barrel has a sliver of steel that blocked the flash hole. I couldn't figure it out and Lewis found it and took it out with a dremel.

 

[Okie Hog]

What I had gotten away from was popping a cap between shots.

There may be your answer. Popping the cap may have cleared the flash channel.

1. Stop cleaning the breech area after each shot, that may be partially blocking the flash channel.

2. When you clean the rifle remove the nipple and clean the flash channel with a bristled pipe cleaner.

3. After loading the powder tilt the rifle hammer side down and give the stocks a couple slaps with the palm. This will allow powder to enter the flash channel.

 

[patinAZ]

There may be your answer. Popping the cap may have cleared the flash channel.

1. Stop cleaning the breech area after each shot, that may be partially blocking the flash channel.

2. When you clean the rifle remove the nipple and clean the flash channel with a bristled pipe cleaner.

3. After loading the powder tilt the rifle hammer side down and give the stocks a couple slaps with the palm. This will allow powder to enter the flash channel.

1. Will try this next session.
2. Already do this.
3. Already do this.

 

[patinAZ]

Are you fully cleaning the rifle after you shoot it?


Are you fully cleaning it after your done shooting for the day?

Between the mink oil, ballistol your load doesn't like what your doing.

Then you said you don't pop caps between swabbing.
That is a mistake. Your not clearing the gunk out of the breech area when it is moist.
Here is a video that explains how I field clean while I'm target shooting.



The only barrel that this method didn't work well with is the barrel I gave @Idaholewis That barrel has a sliver of steel that blocked the flash hole. I couldn't figure it out and Lewis found it and took it out with a dremel.

Excellent video with explanation. This sounds like exactly what happened with my two off shots.

I will definitely try this out next time out. Hopefully this Veteran's Day.

Yes, the rifle is fully cleaned immediately have each shooting session.

 

[Renegadehunter]

I believe you were pushing wet fouling into the breech area when first swabbing with a .54 jag and patch.

I find that a "standard" sized jag of the same caliber as the bore, along with a 2" or 2.5" patch, is too tight. This results in pushing fouling down ahead of the jag/patch which ends up in the breech. One fix is to do as suggested and pop a cap and make sure you see this fouling come out along with it making a leaf or blade of grass move. The other is to turn the jag down a bit by chucking it into a cordless drill and spinning it on a flat file.
I turned mine down a little at a time until it and the patch go down my fouled bore smoothly, but then the patch bunches up and pulls the fouling back out of the barrel. I use a 2.5" patch so there is plenty to bunch up. I don't swab with alcohol, I generally just use a lightly damp patch of either Hoppes BP solvent or Birchwood-Casey Muzzle Magic (just to use up what I have, I'll go to Windex when they're gone). I run the damp patch down, wait about 7 or 8 seconds for the fouling to soften, and then pull it back out. Flip patch and do it again. Then one pass with a dry patch. I do this with the barrel pointed up. This has completely eliminated my having to pop a cap after swabbing, even on a rainy/high moisture day when the fouling stays super soft. I don't try to get into the recessed breech area at all.
I think either popping a cap or turning the jag down will make this issue go away completely, no matter what cleaning solvent you use as long as the patch is just damp. Using a high alcohol swabbing lube certainly makes a lot of sense though.

 

[patinAZ]

UPDATE-

I went out shooting today. I followed most all the advice here; alcohol swabs/dry patches between shots, popped a cap after breaking up crud ring, popped a cap into a jagged patch (video above), tapped after each powder drop. I'm happy to report no weak ignition.

Today I used Swiss 2Fg instead of GOEX. It was noticeably cleaner burning and easier measuring/pouring. I worked up from 70-100 grains. With 100 grains, at 100 yards, I had two out of three PRBs touching. I'm good with that.

I didn't get a chance to burn any Old Eynsford that I had.

 

[idahoron]

Good job.

 

[Idaholewis]

The one thing i do different than Ron, is i don’t Pop a Cap with a Patched Jag Seated against the Breech Plug Shoulder (I use to do that long ago, But found out it was unnecessary in my Case) With Swiss Real Blackpowder the Fouling is DRY and Rough, I point the Barrel Straight down at the Ground and pop the Cap off, This allows the Dry, Flakey Fouling to Trickle out on the Ground. You would be Amazed at how Much Crud breaks loose. This is coming from the Fire Channel, Patented Breech/Powder Chamber. With a Patched Jag Seated against the Breech Plug Shoulder, I am not allowing the Dry Crud to Come out, it’s TRAPPING it in there

Ron on the other Hand uses Pyrodex P Powder, which is a much Softer, Gooey Type Fouling (as he say’s in his Video) I can see where a Patched Jag Seated against the Breech Plug Shoulder would Work well for that Type of Fouling