What size wool wad

[Makinsmoke]

I'm waiting for my barrel to come back home from Hankins. I've been getting everything around so when it gets here I'm all ready. I have everything but wads. My question is what size ? I've always used 54 cal in my 50's with blackpower. Can I use 50 cal wads in my 45 cal smokeless ? Maybe a stupid ??? But smokeless MZ is all new to me.

 

[muzzlestuffer]

I always use one size up so yes you can.

 

[Mnt monkey]

If you're shooting smokeless powder and thin jacketed bullets in that rifle,,fury,Pittman Parker etc,, I really don't think you'll need a wad. I have tried wads in all of my smokeless rifles,, no effect at all,,, I do use wads in a lot of my other muzzleloaders especially the ones I might shoot a hot Black Horn load out of... For me if I'm hunting with my smokeless rifle and it doesn't need a wad that just makes reloading in the field much simpler and quicker,,, try with them,,, try your gun without them. I think you'll find most smokeless rifles really don't need them

 

[Mnt monkey]

I suppose if you're shooting a Hot load with a light blue sabot,, that wad might help protect that sabot,,, but for bore riding bullets I just haven't been able to see any beneficiary effect

 

[eekjellander]

Sabot takes the place of a wad and if staying with it ruins the shot . PB cast needs the wad /Ed

 

[GM54-120]

Using a HIS or DIS ignition with a sabotless bullet many of the guys dont use any wad. I use a veggie wad with a 209 system and they are all around .460-.463 in size. That is with smokeless and BH209 but if you want a really tight wad for BH209, use a polywad from Buffalo Arms. I think the polywad would be ok with smokeless too but ive never used one yet. They work great though with BH209 and ive seen posts about people using them in smokeless CF cartridges. I cant imagine why they would not be ok in a SML load.

You would need the .463x.060 if you want to try them.
https://www.buffaloarms.com/reloading-supplies-accessories/wads/poly-wads.html

 

[jims]

What I use is what GM54 mentioned.

 

[muzzlestuffer]

Sabot takes the place of a wad and if staying with it ruins the shot . PB cast needs the wad /Ed

I don't shoot sabot's anymore but when I did I still used a felt wad to help seal gases and simple testing will show if it's working

 

[eekjellander]

I don't shoot sabot's anymore but when I did I still used a felt wad to help seal gases and simple testing will show if it's working

And you will never know , is it the wad helping or doing what the sabot is already designed to do . I suggest (testing) will never show squat ! Doing the same thing twice does nothing other wasting time as wad is functioning as a sabot unless you lube the wad(SABOT) /Ed

 

[muzzlestuffer]

Really testing won't show squat ?

 

[GM54-120]

Some people do use a wad under a sabot in SMLs. Its to protect the base of the sabot. The majority of the time it not needed but some loads with a faster powder it can. Such as a 200gr SST in a 45 using N110. You can easily hit 2400fps with that load if you can keep the sabot from failing. Why even do it?

Because it takes far less powder than 4198 and its rock solid dependable ignition. Virtually no temp sensitivity.

 

[eekjellander]

Some people do use a wad under a sabot in SMLs. Its to protect the base of the sabot. The majority of the time it not needed but some loads with a faster powder it can. Such as a 200gr SST in a 45 using N110. You can easily hit 2400fps with that load if you can keep the sabot from failing. Why even do it?

Because it takes far less powder than 4198 and its rock solid dependable ignition. Virtually no temp sensitivity.

I was not speaking about smokeless but smoking black or subs and cast bullets and subs using sabots-or bore sized PB bullets . My point was if you get gas cutting with a sabot it is not properly sized or the bullet isn’t for the bore . If it’s loose it leaks , tite it doesn’t just like a poorly patched round ball.With the RB example a wad over the powder helps make up for your poor choice of patch / R B but there is no option for the sabot cause one assumes you selected the perfect sabot to fit your bore before shooting when it counts/ Ed

 

[GM54-120]

Well, we are taking about smokeless.

Can I use 50 cal wads in my 45 cal smokeless ? Maybe a stupid ??? But smokeless MZ is all new to me.

I can easily make enough peak pressure to drill a sabot even if it fits my bore perfectly. As little as 2-3gr difference in powder can do it. Especially with fast powders like N110. 35gr may be just dandy but 38gr is trashing sabots without a wad.

 

[eekjellander]

Well, we are taking about smokeless.


I can easily make enough peak pressure to drill a sabot even if it fits my bore perfectly. As little as 2-3gr difference in powder can do it. Especially with fast powders like N110. 35gr may be just dandy but 38gr is trashing sabots without a wad.

My ignorance of smokeless shows but since I never have and never will use the evil white powder in front stuffers , you can laugh but I hear muzzle loader and think of 12-1300 FPS Black powder. I will refrain from commenting in the future and let you find your entertainment elsewhere, what I stated is absolutely true relative to cast Sabot and wad

 

[SW]

My ignorance of smokeless shows but since I never have and never will use the evil white powder in front stuffers , you can laugh but I hear muzzle loader and think of 12-1300 FPS Black powder. I will refrain from commenting in the future and let you find your entertainment elsewhere, what I stated is absolutely true relative to cast Sabot and wad

The thread starter specifically stated that he was asking this question concerning smokeless powder. Additionally, this is the smokeless muzzleloading section of this board. Why are you here? Are you lost? This isn’t the traditional section of this board.

Wads do 2 things:

1) With a round ball, people shooting really hot loads (of course this is smoky powder) would often fold a patch in 4ths and put under the patched RB. This helped in not burning thru the actual patch around the ball. Later, a wool was (All Day Wonder Wad was used most at Friendship) was substituted for the folded wad.
In the early days of Savage 10ML, later ML2, sabots would fail due to heat or just inability to handle the load. Wool wads helped. Today, with the usage of 45 cal retrofits and so many custom 45s, hot loads with the Light Blue Harvester sabots (HLBS) are often used . The hotter the powder, the greater the chance of failure. A 200SST, 195 Barnes, a sized 225/228g AccuMax, Fury - various, etc can be shot to 2600’/sec with just VV110 up to 2600’/sec if a wool wad is used TO PROTECT THE SABOT BASE. Likewise, other loads can be used (slower powders usually in a duplex) can be used for up thru 3100’/sec.

2) Sabotless. The wad is a bandaid . It helps seal the load, helping with obturation, when the bullet won’t obturate easily due to bullet sizing, bullet composition, a light load, slow pressure rise or a combination of any of these.
Personally, I only shoot sabotless 40s now. Some of my loads don’t have enough initial pressure to obturate quickly enough to obturate ideally so I use a wad to help.

Wads have their place in smokeless muzzleloading. Ideally, they aren’t needed; but, sometimes they are just the right answer.