White 97 w/Bull Shop conicals

[dbowling]

Bought this gun a couple weeks ago and it came with a Bushnell Sportsman 1.5x4.5 scope and White quick release rings.. I zeroed the open sights and never messed with the scope.. well my Bull Shop 460 gr. conicals came in the mail the other day so I threw the scope on today and set target up at 28 yds., 70 gr. 777 2F on fouled barrel.. the 1st shot is the right one marked 25 yds., 2nd shot is the one to the left marked 25 yds. at edge of bull, the next 3 I move the target back to 50 yds. shooting standing with my hand on tree trunk gun laying across forearm. All 3 shots basically went thru same hole less then a inch. The last shot was at the bottom diamond at 50 yds., the scope is almost maxed out for left windage adjustment so didn't want to mess with it anymore.. after season is over may get another scope or different rings to try to get some of my windage adj. back..
What I don't understand is why White didn't put Knight out of business, these guns are the most consistently accurate muzzleloader I've ever shot and I've owned 20 or so Knights, bunch of CVA`s, TC, Traditions, Marlin etc.. wish now Id of bought Whites instead of all those Knights..

 

[bp45cal]

What I don't understand is why White didn't put Knight out of business, these guns are the most consistently accurate muzzleloader I've ever shot and I've owned 20 or so Knights, bunch of CVA`s, TC, Traditions, Marlin etc.. wish now Id of bought Whites instead of all those Knights

i think most of it was court battles n business practices.When they had the manufacturer shoots White won all the time so its not because they didn't shoot well.Others here have a better understanding then me tho so i say nomore

 

[dbowling]

Yeah I heard about all that but you would think they could get someone who could run a business and leave it to them, its a dang shame these guns are no longer being made. They shoot as good or better then most guns designed to shoot sabots and handle better then most muzzleloaders. Whats really bad is I didn't buy a bunch of them when I 1st heard about them 20 yrs ago..

 

[toytruck]

I too procrastinated about buying a White rifle at first. Glad I took the bait an got one, then the rest just kinda followed along....

I never did care for the Knight secondary safety and heard some negatives from some guys, when I worked, that the gun wouldn't fire, etc. I have owned T/C products and still have a .54 Renegade w/o the QLA, that gun has a home, but the rest were sold.

I really like shooting the CVA Optima V2 pistol, haven't had much time to play with the rifle version as of yet, but the Whites are my go to weapon of choice when hunting.

 

[dbowling]

I have a .54 Renegade w/chopped barrel done by Bobby Hoyt that I really like and "probably" wont get rid of.
I love the older Knights the secondary safety isn't a problem if you just put a little blue loc-tite on it let it dry then screw it in and out a few times, puts enough tension on it where it wont screw in while walking etc.. Ive got my T/C Black Diamond .50 pistol I made that I like and its very accurate also..
My Optima V2 pistol while its super accurate I just haven't warmed up to the grips and didn't even take it out of the cabinet this year, if I could get a set of custom grips I liked Id probably hunt with it a lot...
But like I said the White is hands down the easiest muzzleloader to be accurate with just picking up picking 70 gr. of powder load and shoot tight groups with no playing around.. plus even after 6-10 shots it was still loading pretty much as easy as the 1st shot..

I too procrastinated about buying a White rifle at first. Glad I took the bait an got one, then the rest just kinda followed along....

I never did care for the Knight secondary safety and heard some negatives from some guys, when I worked, that the gun wouldn't fire, etc. I have owned T/C products and still have a .54 Renegade w/o the QLA, that gun has a home, but the rest were sold.

I really like shooting the CVA Optima V2 pistol, haven't had much time to play with the rifle version as of yet, but the Whites are my go to weapon of choice when hunting.

 

[fishhawk2700]

Bought my first S91 in 94 or 95. Hunted with it for about 15 years, but then I was lured to the dark side. That rifle from another mfg. was evil. It did things I could not explain. It made me crazy......Luckily I regained my senses, sold that POS, and I now have 6 whites all warm and cozy in the gun safe. I love shooting big chunks of lead.
Life is good again.

 

[sbuff]

I think knight had more money then Doc at the time . Didn't it have to do with copyright ?

Agree it's a shame they went under, you can go on any board and find good/bad about tc,knight,cva, all the way down to Winchester but on those same boards you only hear how good whites are. I got a S91-11 from Doc and a thunderbolt off gun broker, both will be in my family a long time.
Steve

 

[Squeeze]

Because Tony Knight was such a muzzleloading promotional frontman. He was integral in legalising seasons (including/legalising inlines) and bylaws for many states, selling and proving designs. He was a tireless frontman, Traveling, meeting politicians, attending and participating in political discussions, Working with states on seasons and laws. Generally promoting the sport, Muzzleloading in general wouldn't be what it is today without Tony Knight.

Knight concentrated mostly on sabots, and shotgun primer ignition, White stuck with traditional cap ignition and full bore conical technology.

 

[edmehlig]

I believe at one time Tony Knight and Doc worked together. I forget what happened.

 

[GM54-120]

When they had the manufacturer shoots White won all the time

You might want to look at who won 6 times in a row at the Manufactures Inline event at Friendship. It wasn't until about 2006 or 2007 and the "Varminter" that White "won all the time" and the event ended.

http://whitemuzzleloading.com/designing-for-accuracy/

White tried competing with off the shelf rifles but their amatuer shooters usually lost badly to other more sophisticated teams. In 2007, I was approached by a group who saw the potential in the White System. As a consequence, we (the team and I) designed a .368 caliber rifle that I called the Varminter, designed for slow, meticulous shooting at small game or target. The team won that year, 2007, beating all old records for team and individual shooting by a substantial margin. Our best shooter only lost 9 points out of 300 for the match. The performance was so astounding that the match disappeared. Nobody wanted to come back to face that kind of competition. I was personally disappointed that the other companies did not rise to meet the competition.

 

[GM54-120]

I believe at one time Tony Knight and Doc worked together. I forget what happened.

IIRC Knight sued White over a safety design similarity and the legal bills crippled White Rifle. I don't remember the outcome of the lawsuit but it is very sad either way. I have a huge amount of respect for both of them. Both made some very sweet rifles.

 

[Busta]

Knight tied White up in court over a lawsuit. White won the lawsuit battle, but lost the war because they ran out of money before Knight did.

Just goes to show, you don't always have to be right, if you have more money than the guy who is. Keep hammering them with lawsuit battles, until they run out of money.

 

[bp45cal]

You might want to look at who won 6 times in a row at the Manufactures Inline event at Friendship. It wasn't until about 2006 or 2007 and the "Varminter" that White "won all the time" and the event ended.

Me bad
I reread the link

After Doc {and his team} leveled the playing field and kick the champs butt they tucked their tails between their legs n went home not to return again so it was cancelled is the way i read the link

I might be abit bias tho

 

[GM54-120]

IMO if they would have made a minimum caliber such as 40 or 45 things would have been much different. I doubt Knight had any desire to make a sub cal conical rifle which would be illegal for big game hunting in many states. I cant use anything under a 40cal here and can only use a shotgun for turkey.

Rolling out a total custom sub 40cal with 55gr of powder (or less) is hardly leveling the field. White used basically custom barrels from day one, Bold triggers and still lost 45 vs 45 and even 45 vs 40 so they dropped down to a .367 with light charges.

The Varminter was great in its day but hasn't done so well in the more recent Hunter Inline Matches at Friendship. Just not enough "umph" to knock over some of those silhouettes i would imagine. Actually i haven't even heard of a 40cal doing anything in the new inline matches including full custom builds. The 45s are doing great though.

 

[Squeeze]

They were basically a 9.3 barrel (.368) with a 14 twist. Doc said they shot 280-300 grn over 50-60 grn. Im working on a similar now.

 

[Busta]

Actually, they were .375 (caliber) groove center fire barrels, .368 (caliber) on the lands. Muzzleloader barrel calibers are measured on the lands, while center fire barrel calibers are measured in the grooves, which would be a little over 9.5 mm.

 

[Squeeze]

OK, that makes sense. I figured it was swedish mauser cal 9.3x62(/74). never measured any centerfire, and really don't use them anymore.
the one i'm using is .360/.367 14 twist
I was sizing down 9.3 bullets, but they weren't really right. I have a better mold now, but haven't casted yet. I still have a few more weeks of season left

I almost bought the one on White sight a few months back, but balked at the $1k price.. Now its gone.. :cry: