Will 3f black powder work?

[Paul Stewart]

I can't find any 4f black powder for the priming pan for my flintlock rifle. Will 3f work in the pan along with 2f black powder down the barrel?
Thanks.

 

[deermanok]

Yes sir, it will work fine. Some people even use the 2f in the pan.
From what I've read, 4f can be a problem if hunting in damp weather.
I use 3f in my own flintlock, pan and main charge. Mine's a 50 caliber.

 

[Shotgunblasts]

Follow what Deermanok mentioned, 3ffg is also more cleaner burning with less fouling. You might have to invest in a little steam cleaner, does wonders on a flintlock.

 

[Ron Huff]

3F works just fine as priming powder and have seen 2F used many times as well. I wont buy 4F or Null B again after my supply is used up.

 

[Les Harris]

3F works fine. Try it and see for yourself. Make due.

 

[stubshaft]

Works fine for me too, although I think 4F gives a slightly faster ignition.

 

[eekjellander]

Back in the day I believe they primed with what they brung/made /Ed

 

[Dave951]

I use 3f in both pan and main charge with no issues.

 

[Bert621]

I think you can use all the grades, some burn faster than others though

 

[Swamp]

Absolutely it will!

 

[Dave951]

I think you can use all the grades, some burn faster than others though

Not exactly true.

Black powder is different from smokeless in burn rate. In a given brand/product of black powder, say Swiss, there is only one burn rate. What changes are the sizes of the "granules" of powder, the "F", and that changes the amount of surface area exposed to ignition. It still burns at the same speed whether 4F or 1F, just 4F has more of the mass of the powder simultaneously exposed to ignition so it seems it burns faster, but in reality it doesn't. That can change when you change brand/grade. Go to say, Elephant, and things change but only because of different ingredients and manufacturing methods. The same surface area exposure fact still holds true.

 

[bronko220002]

Not exactly true.

Black powder is different from smokeless in burn rate. In a given brand/product of black powder, say Swiss, there is only one burn rate. What changes are the sizes of the "granules" of powder, the "F", and that changes the amount of surface area exposed to ignition. It still burns at the same speed whether 4F or 1F, just 4F has more of the mass of the powder simultaneously exposed to ignition so it seems it burns faster, but in reality it doesn't. That can change when you change brand/grade. Go to say, Elephant, and things change but only because of different ingredients and manufacturing methods. The same surface area exposure fact still holds true.

^^^^ Exactly!

 

[Confederate rifleman]

I strongly disagree about 4F.
Black powder is a surface burn powder. The massive increase in surface area between 2 and 4 f for example does dramatically increase the burn rate.
Ever wonder why NO ONE recommends 4f as a main charge?
There's a LOT of pressure data published that conclusively shows that the same charge of 3f gives higher pressures than 2f.
Manufacturer also matters. My experience was Elephant was slowest, but was quite accurate, and Swiss was fastest, with superb accuracy.
I THINK, but can not confirm, that Swiss granulation is about a half F finer than ours. This may be the reason for the higher velocities.
In my rifles, Swiss gave 150 fps higher velocity than the same charge of GOEX.
Ymmv.

 

[Dave951]

I strongly disagree about 4F.
Black powder is a surface burn powder. The massive increase in surface area between 2 and 4 f for example does dramatically increase the burn rate.

NO IT DOES NOT. The RATE at which the powder burns is a constant. What DOES increase with 4f is the AMOUNT of powder burning at that single moment and the result is a quicker rise in pressure. You just stated that black powder is a surface burn, yes that is correct. What does not change is the speed at which that burn occurs. Upping the surface area does not change chemistry and physics.

 

[Confederate rifleman]

A 70 grain charge is 70 grains, by weight, regardless of granulation.The composition is the same, but the finer the granulation the more rapidly it converts to gas.
No need to shout...

 

[Dave951]

A 70 grain charge is 70 grains, by weight, regardless of granulation.The composition is the same, but the finer the granulation the more rapidly it converts to gas.
No need to shout...

Admitted this is a fine point, but the burn rate is constant. By exposing more surface area, more is being burnt at the same time but the composition called black powder itself is not burning any faster. By exposing more surface area a given weight will burn in a shorter time than the same weight with less surface area, but again, the material itself is not burning at any faster rate. It's burning more at once simply because more of it is exposed to ignition.

 

[Confederate rifleman]

Yup

 

[Montana Muzzleloader]

Will it work? Is a frog’s butt watertight? Yes & yes. I prefer 4F for pan priming when hunting (makes me feel more confident in fast ignition I guess) but frankly I’ve used 2 F & 3F with no real issues.

 

[Dwayne]

Admitted this is a fine point, but the burn rate is constant. By exposing more surface area, more is being burnt at the same time but the composition called black powder itself is not burning any faster. By exposing more surface area a given weight will burn in a shorter time than the same weight with less surface area, but again, the material itself is not burning at any faster rate. It's burning more at once simply because more of it is exposed to ignition.

And this is why you should never "Pack Down" your main charge on Flintlocks. Leaving the main charge
a little loose to where the projectile just "sits" on the main charge, allows the grains to be a little looser,
which allows the burn rate throughout the powder to increase because of more exposed powder.

This helps speed up the lock time on flintlocks.

 

[HC]

First time I’ve heard of that.

And this is why you should never "Pack Down" your main charge on Flintlocks. Leaving the main charge
a little loose to where the projectile just "sits" on the main charge, allows the grains to be a little looser,
which allows the burn rate throughout the powder to increase because of more exposed powder.

This helps speed up the lock time on flintlocks.