Will another major man. ever make a smokeless mz?

[Rifleman]

So what do you think? Will another of the major muzzleloader manufacturers ever come out with a smokeless muzzleloader to compete with the Savage? Seems to me Knight really holds the ball here on this one, as they are considered by alot of folks to be "the" manufacturer when it comes to mass produced quality inlines. If and I somewhat doubt they will, ever make a smokeless rifle, the muzzleloader world will be turned upside down. If one of the other major manufacturers did it, or if Savage got off the pot and really started promoting and taking a significant market share, that might accomplish the same thing. Anyway should make for some fun discussion.

 

[dwhunter]

I voted yes cause sooner or later it'll happen. If I remember right the interview Randy did with Doc White he even believes it's headed in that direction.

 

[Loggy]

I voted yes. With the 10 ML-II's hoggin up valuable market share it will only be a matter of time.

 

[Spitpatch]

I would hate to see the market flooded with dangerous versions by overseas manufacturers. Knight is one thing but consider the repercussions if and when the flood gates are opened.

 

[Grouse]

I think T/C will do it first. But right now it's not needed for them. In the next few years i think everyone will be thinking Smokeless.

 

[Anonymous]

So what do you think? Will another of the major muzzleloader manufacturers ever come out with a smokeless muzzleloader to compete with the Savage? Seems to me Knight really holds the ball here on this one, as they are considered by alot of folks to be "the" manufacturer when it comes to mass produced quality inlines.

The way the question is posed, unlikely for some time, depending on how you define "major" muzzleloading manufacturer. Thompson would be in the best position to do so, as that is precisely what the Encore and Contenders have always been-- smokeless form 4473 rifles and pistols, before they were frontloaders. To do so now would be competing against themselves in large measure, and would require a large consumption of crow. Thompson was very late to the gate in embracing the "temporary inline" fad, threatening to void warranties if you dared to use a sabot. Their inline entry, the Black Diamond, can only be described as a ten years after the fact clone of the MK-85-- and not a particularly stellar one. That does not mean they don't have a smokeless barreled Encore ready to go right now, but they would have problems implementing it.

What is happening, and has been happening in front of everyone's nose, it that the line between what people like to call "smokeless" (which means nothing specifically) and blackpowder "replacements" becomes thinner and thinner.

Easy to clean, less corrosive, higher velocity, sealed actions. That defines Triple 7, AP, BM3, and perhaps Pinnacle. Pellets cannot be reasonably compared to blackpowder.

You already have similar velocities with 250 grain bullets whether 10ML-II, Omega, or Disc Elites. Similar ranges, similar performance under most muzzleloading conditions.

No deer really cares what pushes a saboted bullet, and the real world difference is minute. Triple 7 and American Pioneer ARE smokeless powders, just not nitrocellulose based. Neither have anything to do with blackpowder by weight, chemistry, or performance.

Everybody wants what 5744, N110, and N120 can do (and has done) in a muzzleloader-- they are just afraid to call it what it is for marketing purposes, and marketing purposes alone.

Develop a truly non-corrosive, low smoke, inexpensive, low recoil, high velocity propellant . . . market it as a blackpowder replacement, and manufacture it from ANY chemical EXCEPT "nitrocellulose"-- so people can't label it in their minds as smokeless, and see what happens.

Few know what Triple 7 is made from, or APP for that matter. Less care. It is all in what it says on the bottle.

It is all political pandering, perception, packaging, and marketing. Anyone that drops three pellets (or more) down their muzzle and fancies themselves as a "blackpowder hunter" is off a few bubbles.

 

[big6x6]

Aaahhh.. I just voted "yes."

 

[RogerDailey]

Sure they will. Just as soon as the percieved liability exposure is low enough and the market potential is high enough. Exisiting companies might create a new brand name, just to keep a clear line between their smokeless and non-smokeless products.

 

[schoolmaster]

I jumped on the smokeless wagon just as soon as I saw one. The advantage was obvious. Savage must be selling smokeless MZs at least enough to keep them in production. It will take some time but TC and or Knight will come around if Savage keeps selling rifles. There are too many shooters like myself that don't like to mess with blackpowder. I do use it on acasion but I hate the mess and cleaning. The large number of powders available make smokeless much more flexiable than the BP guns. I do like TC and Knight rifles and own several. But when it comes hunting time I pick up the Savage or the SMI.