Rifleman said:
So what do you think? Will another of the major muzzleloader manufacturers ever come out with a smokeless muzzleloader to compete with the Savage? Seems to me Knight really holds the ball here on this one, as they are considered by alot of folks to be "the" manufacturer when it comes to mass produced quality inlines.
The way the question is posed, unlikely for some time, depending on how you define "major" muzzleloading manufacturer. Thompson would be in the best position to do so, as that is precisely what the Encore and Contenders have always been-- smokeless form 4473 rifles and pistols, before they were frontloaders. To do so now would be competing against themselves in large measure, and would require a large consumption of crow. Thompson was very late to the gate in embracing the "temporary inline" fad, threatening to void warranties if you dared to use a sabot. Their inline entry, the Black Diamond, can only be described as a ten years after the fact clone of the MK-85-- and not a particularly stellar one. That does not mean they don't have a smokeless barreled Encore ready to go right now, but they would have problems implementing it.
What is happening, and has been happening in front of everyone's nose, it that the line between what people like to call "smokeless" (which means nothing specifically) and blackpowder "replacements" becomes thinner and thinner.
Easy to clean, less corrosive, higher velocity, sealed actions. That defines Triple 7, AP, BM3, and perhaps Pinnacle. Pellets cannot be reasonably compared to blackpowder.
You already have similar velocities with 250 grain bullets whether 10ML-II, Omega, or Disc Elites. Similar ranges, similar performance under most muzzleloading conditions.
No deer really cares what pushes a saboted bullet, and the real world difference is minute. Triple 7 and American Pioneer ARE smokeless powders, just not nitrocellulose based. Neither have anything to do with blackpowder by weight, chemistry, or performance.
Everybody wants what 5744, N110, and N120 can do (and has done) in a muzzleloader-- they are just afraid to call it what it is for marketing purposes, and marketing purposes alone.
Develop a truly non-corrosive, low smoke, inexpensive, low recoil, high velocity propellant . . . market it as a blackpowder replacement, and manufacture it from ANY chemical EXCEPT "nitrocellulose"-- so people can't label it in their minds as smokeless, and see what happens.
Few know what Triple 7 is made from, or APP for that matter. Less care. It is all in what it says on the bottle.
It is all political pandering, perception, packaging, and marketing. Anyone that drops three pellets (or more) down their muzzle and fancies themselves as a "blackpowder hunter" is off a few bubbles.