I am going to work up an accuracy deer hunting load for my new 10ML-II. I have a supply of 300gr. Barnes MZ and 300gr. XTPs with MMP sabots. I will be using AA5744 powder and Federal 209A primers. My question is, how many grains should I start with and what should not be exceeded?Should I go up by 1/2gr. or 1 full gr. per group? Thanks VLP.204
Working up an accuracy load.
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I'm definitely not the expert, but I'd guess you'll find your load somewhere around 44-45 grains. I wouldn't go much (if any) over 45. Half grain steps might be best if your really trying to tweak it. I've been shooting 45 and think I'm going to follow a recent post that recommends stepping back a little (38-40 grains of AA5744). So I guess 38 could be your starting spot.
I have read good thinks about Vihtavuori N120 for use with 300 grain bullets. You might want to check into that as well.
Maybe spend some time reading at this site, more of an expert than me! http://members.aol.com/randymagic/savage3.htm
I have read good thinks about Vihtavuori N120 for use with 300 grain bullets. You might want to check into that as well.
Maybe spend some time reading at this site, more of an expert than me! http://members.aol.com/randymagic/savage3.htm
Welcome VLP.I had my 10 ML-II sighted in with 45 grains of AA 5744 shootin the 250 SST's so stayed with same powder load to try the Barnes 300 MZ's. I was usin the Win 209 primers. You may want to start with a few grains or so less & work up. Based on what I experienced I'd go straight to 45 grains of AA 5744 and see how well it groups. Heres a copy of my post re range results that I posted 3/13/05 on our Old Board:
Finally got to the range to go some serious shootin today. Man, what a nice day...lite winds and temps in high 40's. My Henry Ball 10 ML-II was the only company that I took with me today. :lol:
Decided to shoot at max 75 YDS since upcoming hog hunt shootin likely inside 75 or 50 for that matter. Shot a couple off sandbags and impact was about about 2" high at 75. Gun was sighted in with the 250 SST's at 100 so made a few scope adjustments and bingo these Barnes Expander MZ were really grouping !! Of course, so were the 250 SST's. This is one hella of a good shootin gun for sure. Below are my targets. 3/4" c-t-c at 75 yds. Moved in to 50 and squeezed couple off at Hog Targets. Shade high on one but on a life size hog should be in business. :lol:
One obsevation i had was that the 300 Barnes did have a noticable recoil increase over the 250 SST's. Still pleasant to shoot but I could easily detect the xtra umph. Recovered 2 spent sabots and they looked great. No shredding, petals intact with crisp rifling grooves.
The first hog grunted once but dropped in his tracks. Heavy bone crushed and didnt have a leg to stand on! :lol:
The second hog first shot a shade high but after hit he keep standin there lookin sorta dumfounded and thanks to my speedloader I put 2nd shot thru lungs and that was it. By the way, the size you see on the screen is actual target size I was shootin. Would of been neat to blow one up somehow to actual hog size. A guy at the range saw me postin the hog targets and sorta kept his distance from me. LOL I dont blame him. :lol:
My 75 yard target:
First Hog Shot:
Second Hog Shot:
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Welcome to the forum
Assuming you have a scale i would start at 42grns of 5744 with a 300grn XTP. If no scale, the 3.1cc dipper will be just fine. If you notice your bolt being tight to close after a few shot's. Make sure you keep an eye on your Breech plug. They tend to come loose until you find the sweet spot to tighten it to. Also if the bolt still seems tight, the Winchester primer will fix that problem. Double check your rings and bases and wait 5 or 10 minutes between shot's. I hope you enjoy your new ML.
Assuming you have a scale i would start at 42grns of 5744 with a 300grn XTP. If no scale, the 3.1cc dipper will be just fine. If you notice your bolt being tight to close after a few shot's. Make sure you keep an eye on your Breech plug. They tend to come loose until you find the sweet spot to tighten it to. Also if the bolt still seems tight, the Winchester primer will fix that problem. Double check your rings and bases and wait 5 or 10 minutes between shot's. I hope you enjoy your new ML.
VLP.204
Welcome to the forum. Thanks for stopping in! :lol:
For 5744/300gr MZ/XTP combo I would do the following:
Start around 40gr and work up in 1gr increments. When accuracy drops off, I would back off 1/2 gr and see what happens.
During the warm summer, you will be faced with heat and barrel warming issues. Plastic sabots are very delicate and dont respond well to heat. Just a couple shots on a warm day and your groups can open up considerably. Because of this you may opt to shoot in early morning and in the shade.
If you are working up a hunting load and want max velocity, be aware that you may be able to shoot a couple grains more in the cooler hunting season.
I have shot several pounds of 5744 w/ 250gr bullets and think it is a great powder for that weight of bullet. In a hunting scenerio I would shoot 48gr. of 5744 and a 245 Spitfire... but with a 300 gr bullet, the same load may tear up a sabot...
This April I witnessed Tom Dreschler (Grouse ) load round after round of 42gr 5744 and a 300 XTP into one ragged hole while in Crossville for the hog hunt. While the 70 degree heat didnt stop him, I think boredom did! :wink: Tom's 2000 FPS load knocked the life from his tasty hog! Here is the pic of him holding what is left of his 300gr XTP found under the skin on the far side of his hog.
In reviewing several of Randy's posts showing pressures of 5744 it definately builds pressure faster than many of the other powders available. Because of this.. N120 may be a much better powder for this class of bullet. You may also get a few more FPS because it is a bit easier on the sabot. jnrbronc I concur!
Happy Shooting! Please keep us posted on your results, and stay away from those XTP MAG's.. :wink:
J.J.
Welcome to the forum. Thanks for stopping in! :lol:
For 5744/300gr MZ/XTP combo I would do the following:
Start around 40gr and work up in 1gr increments. When accuracy drops off, I would back off 1/2 gr and see what happens.
During the warm summer, you will be faced with heat and barrel warming issues. Plastic sabots are very delicate and dont respond well to heat. Just a couple shots on a warm day and your groups can open up considerably. Because of this you may opt to shoot in early morning and in the shade.
If you are working up a hunting load and want max velocity, be aware that you may be able to shoot a couple grains more in the cooler hunting season.
I have shot several pounds of 5744 w/ 250gr bullets and think it is a great powder for that weight of bullet. In a hunting scenerio I would shoot 48gr. of 5744 and a 245 Spitfire... but with a 300 gr bullet, the same load may tear up a sabot...
This April I witnessed Tom Dreschler (Grouse ) load round after round of 42gr 5744 and a 300 XTP into one ragged hole while in Crossville for the hog hunt. While the 70 degree heat didnt stop him, I think boredom did! :wink: Tom's 2000 FPS load knocked the life from his tasty hog! Here is the pic of him holding what is left of his 300gr XTP found under the skin on the far side of his hog.
In reviewing several of Randy's posts showing pressures of 5744 it definately builds pressure faster than many of the other powders available. Because of this.. N120 may be a much better powder for this class of bullet. You may also get a few more FPS because it is a bit easier on the sabot. jnrbronc I concur!
Happy Shooting! Please keep us posted on your results, and stay away from those XTP MAG's.. :wink:
J.J.
Yes, stay away from the XTP Mags. I recently had to retire my shooting tree stump so I ripped it apart to look at bullet expansion. The Barnes MZ expansion is beautiful. The MZ petals look just like the pictures on their website, barnesbullets.com. The standard XTPs would expand to about twice their original diameter. The XTP Mags showed no expansion.
I took RW's recommendation to start at 38gr of AA-5744 and work up from there. Using 250 XTPs, 300 XTPs, 300 MZs here is a summary of my results:
38 & 39gr loads gave me 3-4 inch 3 shot groups, not too great.
40gr loads gave me 2-3 inch 3 shot groups, now we're getting there.
41gr loads have produced 1.5 to 2.75 inch 3 shot groups @ 100yds. YES!!
When temps cool off and I get a still evening or morning I plan to try 42gr and continue to work up from there. In my gun 45gr seemed to be too much powder. I would get anywhere from 2-5 inch groups, I did not have repeatable accurracy.
Here are some tips from my testing:
1. Wait at least 5min between shots. Let the barrel cool, sabots do not like heat. To pass the time between shots I like to walk down to the target and mark each shot. Tell the wife you are getting some exercise while you are shooting. :wink:
2. Keep your bullets and sabots in the shade.
I took RW's recommendation to start at 38gr of AA-5744 and work up from there. Using 250 XTPs, 300 XTPs, 300 MZs here is a summary of my results:
38 & 39gr loads gave me 3-4 inch 3 shot groups, not too great.
40gr loads gave me 2-3 inch 3 shot groups, now we're getting there.
41gr loads have produced 1.5 to 2.75 inch 3 shot groups @ 100yds. YES!!
When temps cool off and I get a still evening or morning I plan to try 42gr and continue to work up from there. In my gun 45gr seemed to be too much powder. I would get anywhere from 2-5 inch groups, I did not have repeatable accurracy.
Here are some tips from my testing:
1. Wait at least 5min between shots. Let the barrel cool, sabots do not like heat. To pass the time between shots I like to walk down to the target and mark each shot. Tell the wife you are getting some exercise while you are shooting. :wink:
2. Keep your bullets and sabots in the shade.
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