Would I Buy The New Knight Disc Extreme?

[rat trapper]

The second safety is nice when climbing up into a stand with a loaded gun.

:shock: :shock: Did you actually pass Hunter Education? :shock: :shock:

Yes! Climbing up on a ladder into a box stand with the second safety on is not considered an issue by me. You won't have to worry about it as you will not be invited to hunt my farm. I don't climb trees or haul guns up on a rope that are loaded.

The main reason for the second safety is to allow you to take the bolt apart. If a person does not like the second safety it is easy to just leave it in the off position.

 

[Omega45]

The second safety is nice when climbing up into a stand with a loaded gun.

:shock: :shock: Did you actually pass Hunter Education? :shock: :shock:

Yes! Climbing up on a ladder into a box stand with the second safety on is not considered an issue by me. You won't have to worry about it as you will not be invited to hunt my farm. I don't climb trees or haul guns up on a rope that are loaded.

The main reason for the second safety is to allow you to take the bolt apart. If a person does not like the second safety it is easy to just leave it in the off position.

I have no interest or implied any interest in coming to Wisconsin and hunting your farm.

 

[rogo]

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[jakesdad]

Re: Primers

I personally think that anyone climbing into any type stand using any type of ladder or other device with a rifle loaded and primed is nuts and careless. It takes about 2 seconds to remove the primer to render the rifle safe. If anyone cannot do that then they should not be allowed to handle a gun.
I totally agree.We never carry a live round of any kind coming/going/climbing in and out of stands.We dont even go live turkey hunting until we setup.You'll get more than one chance at critters,you may not mishandling a loaded weapon.

 

[jsteurrys]

We need the weather to cool off so we can all get back out and shoot instead of all the nonsense that has been going on here lately. It will be is the 50s here first thing in the morning next week so it is time to get focused. Please post your range reports so we all have some good reading again.

 

[flounder]

GOOD THINKING JIM

 

[jeepman133]

If you spent some time shooting and hunting with a Knight Disc extreme you wouldn't want any other rifle. Quality is quality!

I have spent a substantial ammount of time shooting both disc extremes and disc elites. I have not shot the newest offerings by the reformed Knight company. I actually owned my extreme and elite before I purchased my first mk-85.
In my opinion the quality of the disc rifles is not as good as the earlier mk-85's. The mk's in my opinion are superior in barrel quality, they have a nicer crown on the barrel, and the general fit and finish are superior when compared to the newer guns. Most importantly, I have been able to get better accuracy out of the mk-85's. However, the plunger action of these older Knight's does not allow for shooting bh209 which seems to be important to a lot of shooters today.
I am not trying to take anything away from the Knight line, as I think they are great rifles, but I would have to say that, In my Humble Opinion, The White rifles have the old mk-85's beat in many ways.

There is no such thing as a "perfect" rifle. They all have good and bad points. Most people with extreme brand loyalties are wearing blinders when looking at other makes. Their are many good quality rifles out there, most will still need some tweaking to get the best accuracy out of them. Buy one that you have fun shooting, the more you shoot it the better it will get.

Art, the Mk85's, must be some kind of gun lol. i bought a NIB wolverine (newer style) last year and i was totally impressed with everything on the rifle, barrel,stock,trigger, recoil pad, sights. everything. and it shoots saboted bullets and full bore lead conicals excellent. gotta have me a look see at one of these MK 85's!!!

 

[GM54-120]

The MKs really are that much better. I had a LK-93 too and even though it was really good, the MK felt much better built. The trigger is a TRUE Timney and is at least in the top 3 ive ever seen right out of the box.

 

[Dutch]

I am really enjoying this discussion.

As to the safeties I would add just one point. The best type of safety is one that mechanically blocks the firing pin from being able to contact the primer. The issue is all about potential energy. When a spring is cocked, it has stored potential energy. To be truly safe from accidental discharge, the potential engery to strike the primer must be total locked/blocked.

Speaking strickly from an engineering standpoint a Knight rifle shooter would be safest if he use the screw-type safety as his primary safety and the trigger safety as a secondary backup.

I know a man who as a child was hunting with his dad and was thumbing the gun safety on and off our of boredom. (I dont know why his dad let him do that!) After doing this many times, the gun fired. He describes the sick feeling he had when that happened. Later he was told that was the same gun that his uncle was carrying many years ago when he was killed when hunting by a presumable accidental discharge. Needless to say he gain a lifelong respect for firearm safety. That gun never went hunting again.

I also know a man who shot off his kneecap crossing a fence while turkey hunting. He was in the woods two days until the sheriff found him. He survived.

A screw type safety like the Knight has would have prevented both accidents. But so would have better gun safety. In the end, it is using a weapon that has a good safety, but never letting yourself "trust" the safety.

I use Knight rifles. One of the major reasons I chose them is the secondary safety.

 

[GM54-120]

When i bought my Accura V1 i was looking for ONLY a 45cal and they were the only ones offering a NEW 45cal. I never even looked at the auction sites. I was impressed by its quality compared to earlier BPI products. FINALLY a CVA with a decent trigger and a better SS barrel. I still had my WinApex 50cal aka CVA Kodiak Pro at that time. It had a nice stock IMO but it trigger was marginal (fine for hunting) and blowby was always a bit too much until i had a custom plug made. Accuracy of the WinApex was good enough for hunting but nothing to get excited about.

The Accura V1 inspired to to try what many people consider to have one of the best triggers...A Knight. Well no one offered a modern 54cal and that's what i wanted this time because 50cals are rather boring to me, plus i used a 54cal for years. I also wanted something that was BH209 compatible. Knight was basically out of the new gun market by that time too.

I found the Green Mountain 54-120 Limited Edition Brush Gun (1 of 250 were planned). Well i love a LE gun, carbines and the 54cal. I bought it for only a few buck more than the Accura and it lived up to all my expectations. Later Lehigh came out with the NFPJ conversions and the deal was sealed. DISC based Knights, even used would be the guns that became most appealing to me.

I guess i was lucky but all of my Knights were compatible with the Lehigh conversion and the breaches were nearly spotless. You have to clean them anyway BUT that blowby cant be good for consistent performance with BH209 or any powder really. At first i was only going to use the NFPJ just for practice and use the FPJs for hunting. I got so used to using the NFPJ and was able to reload them almost as easily, i never used a FPJ again in a DISC.

IMO the new Extreme even with the added cost of a NFPJ is still a good value when compared to the actual retail price of other guns. Nearly all the upper end guns are running around $500+ unless you find a close out or end of year sale. Look at how much a new Traditions Vortek cost at a retail outlet, its not cheaper by much if any and the Accura V2 is very close to that pricing too. When Knight gets more retail outlets i expect the pricing to be even more competitive. No one else offers a nice laminate for under $600 either if that matters to the OP. Its does matter to me even if i buy the cheaper stock version first and upgrade later to a "purdy" stock.

Im almost certain a new Vision will be offered once the new Knight is making a profit and has the money to put more R&D into it. This should be a good option for guys that don't want a bolt type gun. I might even be interested depending on the caliber and improvements. It really does not need much to be a strong competitor in that market. I don't think Knight is trying very hard to get into that market right now. A better trigger and a LOP change would surely put it in the running IMO. There is even some room to trim off nearly a pound but most break actions are pretty heavy too.

 

[t/c omega man]

speaking of the current Knight ML's:

I read on here somewhere that the Mountaineers are built a little tighter than the Long Range Hunters. Can someone comment on this.

I beleive I will buy a current Knight ML but can't decide between the Mountaineer & LRH.

 

[jeepman133]

Mountainam

Actually Knight is coming out with a improved Vision and from what ive heard the upgrades will fit the older Visions too. They did a survey and most Knight owners wanted the same old DISC based guns but with improvements and the Ultimate Slam. They gave people what they wanted and will add to the lineup as they grow.

I would expect a MK85 commemorative next though and then some newer models.

They may have given the "Knight" shooters what they wanted, but "failed" to give" potential "knight owners what they wanted. the majority of people want break actions not bolt guns. now knight needs to offer a well made,accurate and blow by free break action to attract those potential customers!!

 

[sqezer]

IMO,WHY, :huh?: The single tube, barrel and reciever is what made KNIGHT what they are, one of the finest ML's made. :yeah: Im not paid for this oppinion. :applause:

 

[rogo]

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[guitarpicva]

...The Encore is a hassle to take a part to clean the trigger area, while the Knight Disc extreme is easy to take the bolt apart and the trigger comes out with one screw. For ease of complete cleaning the Knight wins hands down. Plus the Knight does not have that damn QLA.

I recently took down my Encore to investigate the trigger group and check the hinge pin after a couple of years of use. No fouling to speak of. There is a small blow-by mark on the outside of the frame near the firing pin area, but nothing horrible. If you open up an Encore, you realize, there isn't much in there to clean. Basically 3 parts and a couple of springs.

I have never had any issues with the QLA, but then I only shoot sabots. For those so inclined, it's cheap enough to remove it and re-crown, particularly if you only use a scope and don't need the front sight re-installed.

 

[sabotloader]

Re: Knight

Their failure to change put them out of business once and will do it again if they do not follow market demand unfortunately.

Actually that is what put them out of business in the first place. They made way to many changes trying to follow the market. to many offerings that were not to Knights old standard.

So, I believe you are wrong on this point. There is not doubt that the break open is the 'in demand' type of weapon right now but things are always changing.

Plus you should actually know what Knight's goals are and it is not to control the market or copy other designs just to sell a rifle. I believe their goal right now is to make a high quality ML for fewer people that appreciate quality versus quanity. They are attempting to make a very good ML using American tech as much as they can.

When they get their feet on the ground and under them I believe will also expand the base of what they are offering. But what is the rush? Also at this point remember they are a small business not a big business trying to be the only ML maker on the playing field.

Just my thoughts... Knight might not agree

 

[jeepman133]

There were several things that put knight under. not being able to produce a quality break action rifle is probably the biggest reason.the 1:20 twist .45 cal didn't help matters either. i have said it before and will again, Knight" may" be able to survive as a "small" business selling bolt action rifles. if they want to become what they once were they will need to follow market demand and that means break action rifles that function well with little or no blow by.blued barrels and synthetic stocks also need to be made available on all there rifles.

 

[tnhagies]

There were several things that put knight under. not being able to produce a quality break action rifle is probably the biggest reason.the 1:20 twist .45 cal didn't help matters either. i have said it before and will again, Knight" may" be able to survive as a "small" business selling bolt action rifles. if they want to become what they once were they will need to follow market demand and that means break action rifles that function well with little or no blow by.blued barrels and synthetic stocks also need to be made available on all there rifles.

I disagree. They do not have to sell a lot of rifles to be "sucessful". Your business goals determine whether or not you are sucessful. They very well may have no desire to be a TC or CVA. They may just be just as content with selling a low volume and producing high quality, high end rifles. It's their choice and I respect that.

 

[guitarpicva]

Re: Knight

Their failure to change put them out of business once and will do it again if they do not follow market demand unfortunately.

Actually that is what put them out of business in the first place. They made way to many changes trying to follow the market. to many offerings that were not to Knights old standard.

Knowing what changes to make and when is how the others got where they are.

So, I believe you are wrong on this point. There is not doubt that the break open is the 'in demand' type of weapon right now but things are always changing.

The break action took a little while to catch on, but it's been going pretty well for a long time. Obviously, not that long in ML's, but the quality, value and versatility of the Contender-style platform is certainly a market winner.

Plus you should actually know what Knight's goals are and it is not to control the market or copy other designs just to sell a rifle. I believe their goal right now is to make a high quality ML for fewer people that appreciate quality versus quantity. They are attempting to make a very good ML using American tech as much as they can.

I'm guessing they stay small if that's truly their mode of operation. Greater capacity doesn't have to equal poorer quality. Witness Taylor Guitars.

...
Also at this point remember they are a small business not a big business trying to be the only ML maker on the playing field.
...

As a former small manufacturer (not related to firearms), I can understand the mentality. Note also, the word "former". If they wish to be the greatest, not the biggest, they might be better served by being a true custom shop. You can't keep one foot on the side-line and expect to compete with the likes of CVA and T/C. Funding has a lot to do with it.

As I have posted on another thread (actually, perhaps this one), I handled their rifles at a show recently. Fine craftsmanship, but I would never purchase one. I don't like the format at all. The ability to have a .75" group vs. a 1" group is pretty well moot when one works on "minute of deer" accuracy scales.

I think much of the "to Knight, or not to Knight" questions may center on what "format" folks like to shoot. I'm not a bolt-action guy. I had a nice Ruger 77 years ago, but never took to it. Always wanted a Ruger Model 1, but could never afford one. The Encore was the best solution for me.

Maybe Knight is gearing up for a push that none of us know about yet! Wouldn't that be great?

 

[EndeavorShooter]

I disagree. They do not have to sell a lot of rifles to be "sucessful". Your business goals determine whether or not you are sucessful. They very well may have no desire to be a TC or CVA. They may just be just as content with selling a low volume and producing high quality, high end rifles. It's their choice and I respect that.

I agree with your theory but, highly doubt that knight or any company, other than a mom and pop company, wants to stay small..... every company is open to make money and pay their employees.... it will be hard for them to do that just selling to niche of the market, they have now... they will need to grow and expand and try to hit the market with a new revolutionary rifle.... and i dont think their mountaineer will be the ticket.
I personally would pre order a break action rifle from knight and i believe there are many that would love to have one..... knight is well respected for their products and craftsmanship and to roll that into a break action would win alot of new TC loyalist, like me.....