58

[451 whitworth]

Idaholewis,
I have an October Country .69 Great American Sporting rifle. Even though I'm a dedicated .451 bullet rifle fan the OC .69 is ridiculous fun. I pounded a couple of deer with it a few weeks ago. In fact my longest ML'er kill is with that rifle.

 

[52Bore]

Received my 58 NOS oct barrel with 1:48 twist. To my surprise it has 3 grooves (haven't seen the likes since seeing my uncles WWI - WWII stuff years ago- ha).
Always thought of how a 0.451" (52bore) would do with a 3 groove? After all - 3 fins work good on missiles...
This 58 is 25" long and has 0.300" wide lands & grooves - all seems to be uniform and in great shape.
Bore is between 0.577" & 0.578" with pin gauge.
Ceracafe casting measures 0.005" single depth rifling/groove, so pretty much .577/.587 land/groove.
Since this was NOS barrel - wonder what, if any, manufacture made a 3 groove 58?


58 casting with a 50 conical on the left.

 

[Idaholewis]

3 Groove? First 3 Groove anything I’ve ever seen? I bet she shoots good! Keep us posted on your progress with it, 58 Cal is a serious chunk of lead!

 

[Idaholewis]

Idaholewis,
I have an October Country .69 Great American Sporting rifle. Even though I'm a dedicated .451 bullet rifle fan the OC .69 is ridiculous fun. I pounded a couple of deer with it a few weeks ago. In fact my longest ML'er kill is with that rifle.

admiral, October Country builds a fine rifle that’s for sure! I bet that .69 is an absolute beast on deer!

 

[52Bore]

3 Groove? First 3 Groove anything I’ve ever seen? I bet she shoots good! Keep us posted on your progress with it, 58 Cal is a serious chunk of lead!

I believe original .577 Enfield's were 3-groove - for Minie'. I recall seeing '03 Springfield with 2 and 3 groove barrels.
Looking to see what modern maker may have made them? Navy Arms, PH, etc..

 

[Idaholewis]

3 Groove? First 3 Groove anything I’ve ever seen? I bet she shoots good! Keep us posted on your progress with it, 58 Cal is a serious chunk of lead!

I believe original .577 Enfield's were 3-groove - for Minie'. I recall seeing '03 Springfield with 2 and 3 groove barrels.
Looking to see what modern maker may have made them? Navy Arms, PH, etc..

I seen a Navy Arms 58 Cal not long ago at a Pawn shop, I can’t remember much about it now? I will have to look at it again if its stil there, My guess/bet would be that it is? They wanted a fair mint for it.

 

[52Bore]

I seen a Navy Arms 58 Cal not long ago at a Pawn shop, I can’t remember much about it now? I will have to look at it again if its stil there, My guess/bet would be that it is? They wanted a fair mint for it.

If you do, please take a few photos of the rifle. Besides the 3-groove, see if the barrel is a straight octagon of 1-1/8".

 

[Idaholewis]

I seen a Navy Arms 58 Cal not long ago at a Pawn shop, I can’t remember much about it now? I will have to look at it again if its stil there, My guess/bet would be that it is? They wanted a fair mint for it.

If you do, please take a few photos of the rifle. Besides the 3-groove, see if the barrel is a straight octagon of 1-1/8".

Will do! I remember it was a Navy Arms .58 Cal, the barrel seemed BIG across the flats and it was definitely straight Octagon, I didn’t know anything about them then, and stil dont? The Ole guy wanted quite a bit for the few Muzzleloaders he had. He also had a TC New Englander 12 Gauge, cylinder bore, no choke, He wanted 400 or 450 for that one, and I believe the Same for that Navy Arms .58 Cal? The best i can remember the Navy Arms looked like a Short HEAVY Hawken? Stuff like this don’t sell very well around here, I would almost bet it is stil there. I will definitely check on it the next trip there (fairly soon) I will take my little drop in bore light and get a few pics of the bore, and the Rifle itself.

 

[52Bore]

Another ML site suggested I look at the Navy Arms Hunter or Hurricane made in the 70's.
Doing some reading on the net - I believe they are correct. Not sure what the difference between Hunter & Hurricane?
Also read that the stock felt much larger, especially in the wrist - which makes since with the loads.


Found an article that reference Val F. hunting adventure with it.

 

[Idaholewis]

52bore, The rifle i seen in the Pawn shop looked just like the one in photo you posted above, It was BEEFY and appeared to be well made.

 

[waarp8nt]

That Navy arms is a nice looking rifle! I have thought often of buying the Jim Bridger kit and putting together a nice 58 cal Hawken with a 1 1/8 barrel. Track sells the kits and Pecatonica River will make one up in flintlock halfstock (called just to make sure). I recently bought a T/C Big Boar, but have yet to shoot it as I didn't receive it in time to do any shooting before season started. My intent is to use it on the local Whitetail population, however this year I used my slug load which consist of an Ohaus 58 cal hollow base boolit in a AA wad on top of a charge of Unique. The slug is leaving the muzzle only slightly over 1200 fps, but it sure makes the deer go down when fired from the old H&R. I limit my shots to about 100 yards as it starts dropping like mad much beyond that distance.

 

[52Bore]

top of a charge of Unique. The slug is leaving the muzzle only slightly over 1200 fps, but it sure makes the deer go down when fired from the old H&R.

Unique and H&R don't sound like they were made for each other??

MB had a very good article a few months ago on the Jim Bridger Hawken - actually their were some consecutive monthly articles on Hawkens.

 

[Idaholewis]

52bore, I found an old thread where i spoke of this same Navy Arms Rifle, That post was back in March so it’s been longer than I remember, But i bet that rifle is stil there? Like i said, Muzzleloaders don’t sell very well around here, especially Old Sidelocks. I also seen a brand new unfired .50 Cal TC White Mountain Carbine with the factory leather sling in a Pawn shop back in that same time and it was stil there a month or so ago. These Pawn shops are in Coeur d’Alene, Idaho. I don’t get down to the ‘Big City’ stuff that much, but when i do i always check the Pawn shops out for Muzzleloaders, supplies, Casting equipment, etc. I’ve got some AMAZING deals in them! The wife was just mentioning a Costco Run the other day and that is in Coeur d’Alene, As I said if that Old Navy Arms is stil there i will take some pictures of it, the bore etc. The 3 Groove barrel is interesting!

 

[52Bore]

Found a color photo and description of offerings in the late 70's. This is the 2nd time I've see 'pre-straightened' when they refer to the barrel.
I've also noticed the brass under-rib - wondering if they were looking for more weight? ha

 

[Idaholewis]

Any idea the Value? Roughly

 

[waarp8nt]

top of a charge of Unique. The slug is leaving the muzzle only slightly over 1200 fps, but it sure makes the deer go down when fired from the old H&R.

Unique and H&R don't sound like they were made for each other??

I did not fully explain, it is a 58 cal minie stuffed in a 20ga shotgun shell, thus making it a home made slug. I started making the slugs 2 years ago until I could find a traditional muzzleloader for hunting. Unfortunately, I did not get the T/C Big Bore in time to do any shooting or testing before deer season so I went back to the old H&R slug gun.

MB had a very good article a few months ago on the Jim Bridger Hawken - actually their were some consecutive monthly articles on Hawkens.

I have not been a NMLRA member since I was a young man the 90's. I believe the magazine has improved greatly as of late, might have to consider joining again. Would you happen to know the months the Bridger articles were featured?

 

[52Bore]

I have not been a NMLRA member since I was a young man the 90's. I believe the magazine has improved greatly as of late, might have to consider joining again. Would you happen to know the months the Bridger articles were featured?

When you call the office to re-join, ask for the Hawken issues. Bridger Hawken Oct.2016, Medina Hawlen (?) and this months issue on the Kit Carson Hawken.

 

[52Bore]

Oh so close...
I sent it to a friend who ended up bidding over the weekend, but not high enough..

Note it's 3-groove Damascus barrel ('25bore' =.58)
Might be a good one to copy!

 

[waarp8nt]

Wow...that thing is beautiful!!!

 

[Idaholewis]

Here is that Rifle in the Pawn shop, as I figured it was stil there. I didn't have a bore light, but was able to get 1 decent picture of the bore, you can see it's definitely a 3 Groove, This gun is IDENTICAL to the 1 in the picture you first posted. This Rifle looks really good, very well cared for, from what I can see down the bore with a standard little cheap flashlight of the Pawn shop owners, the Bore looks unfired new, He wants 495 bucks for it, He can keep it, and obviously has.