First Muzzy Purchase: CVA vs. Knight... Advice and Reviews!

[MtnManTy]

Muzzy Fam,

I've been pouring over the forums here and elsewhere, reading reviews and researching smoke poles. Below are my findings for comparison between my top options. I am posting to 1) provide info for others following the same path I'm currently on, and 2) hear from others with (recent?) experience with these particular brands/models.

For reference, I am a Colorado resident, so my ideal muzzy will have a base system that is CO legal (loose powder, no sabot, open sights), but I am looking to swap out open sights for a scope for use in other states, mainly Nebraska. This is to be a deer only gun, so I have been specifically researching .45 cal muzzleloaders. Weight is a factor, as CO muzzy season is September when the weather is nice(er?), and I love getting out in the backcountry.

CVA: Accura MR-X and LR-X

Pros: Lower cost, simple action, much easier to clean, adjustable stock

Cons: Made in Spain, heavier(LR-X), .45 cal bore diameter issues, collapsible ramrod

Knight Rifles: Mountaineer and Ultra-Lite

Pros: Made in the USA, no/fewer bore issues, full and attached ramrod, weight(UL)

Cons: More expensive, more difficult to clean, heavier(mountaineer), breech plug/vent liner issue, no stock adjustment.

Common Ground: all have good, adjustable triggers. Available in different patterns and finishes. 209 ignition, plus other options. Similar twist rates (1:20 or 1:30 for knight, 1:22 for CVA). Longer/shorter barrel length options (26" for MR-X, 30" for LR-X, 24" for Ultra-Lite, 27" for Mountaineer). Accuracy guarantee/claim, 1 MOA at 200 for Knight, "Most accurate muzzleloader you've ever shot or your money back" for CVA (up for interpretation). Customer service seems to be hit and miss for both.

My thoughts:

If you've made it to here, thanks for coming along. My research, for my hunting application, has me leaning towards knight rifles. They seem to have fewer issues, and the issues they have are more straight forward to fix. There is more customization that can be done on the knight platforms. Cost is a consideration, but not a driving factor for me. I'm still torn, the UL would be much nicer to carry in the hills or maneuver in a stand, but the Mountaineer just looks so darn good, and has a happy medium for barrel length. But... The CVAs are so simple to clean!?!

What say you sage muzzy vets? Spend less on a CVA, then hope for a good barrel, otherwise pull your hair out for find a well fitting bullet? Or spend more on the Knight, and deal with replacing the breech plug/vent liners?

Cheers all!

 

[ElDiablo]

There’s no CVA made that I’d buy. Lol Knight would be a good choice. Did you look at Woodman Arms Patriots?

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Imo the only thing the X series cva has over knight is the adjustable stock and east bore cleaning. No harder to clean a Knight since i dont have to worry about the trigger, firing pin and hinge works getting debris or blow by into them. I have an older LR that i may not ever part with, but the knight ultra-lite is a MUCH better gun. I love my LR and UL and if i had to choose between UL and the LR, i would take the knight without hesitation. No doubt about it the Accura .45 is an awesome gun but the Knight UL will do all that and more. Its one piece design, quick release bolt, Timney trigger, and super light stock just about make it the perfect gun to carry around the hills, mountains, tree stands and blinds. I would only consider the Woodman Patriot or a CVA Scout conversion as its equal. But those two may not be CO legal.

 

[MtnManTy]

There’s no CVA made that I’d buy. Lol Knight would be a good choice. Did you look at Woodman Arms Patriots?

I did... I just don't love the hammerless design, or overall look of them... Petty I know, especially as light weight as they are

 

[ElDiablo]

Imo the only thing the X series cva has over knight is the adjustable stock and east bore cleaning. No harder to clean a Knight since i dont have to worry about the trigger, firing pin and hinge works getting debris or blow by into them. I have an older LR that i may not ever part with, but the knight ultra-lite is a MUCH better gun. I love my LR and UL and if i had to choose between UL and the LR, i would take the knight without hesitation. No doubt about it the Accura .45 is an awesome gun but the Knight UL will do all that and more. Its one piece design, quick release bolt, Timney trigger, and super light stock just about make it the perfect gun to carry around the hills, mountains, tree stands and blinds. I would only consider the Woodman Patriot or a CVA Scout conversion as its equal. But those two may not be CO legal.

Colorado allows loose powder (bp or subs), full-bore, 209s and open-sights. So the Patriot or would be fine. Or a sml capable Omega…..

 

[MtnManTy]

Colorado allows loose powder (bp or subs), full-bore, 209s and open-sights. So the Patriot or would be fine. Or a sml capable Omega…..

Smokeless is illegal in CO, only bp and substitutes.

 

[billyboy*]

Colorado allows loose powder (bp or subs), full-bore, 209s and open-sights. So the Patriot or would be fine. Or a sml capable Omega…..

There’s no CVA made that I’d buy. Lol Knight would be a good choice. Did you look at Woodman Arms Patriots?

Smokeless is illegal in CO, only bp and substitutes.

You mentioned Nebraska, they allow Smokeless, Sabots & Scopes. .45 Cal Woodman Patriot would be a Great Choice.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Smokeless is illegal in CO, only bp and substitutes.

You can also shoot real black or other subs in the Scout and Patriot.

 

[MtnManTy]

You mentioned Nebraska, they allow Smokeless, Sabots & Scopes. .45 Cal Woodman Patriot would be a Great Choice.

True, but I want the load to stay the same, just swap sights as state regs allow, minimize the fiddling between. CO will be the primary

 

[ElDiablo]

Many of us have figured out that the most versatile rifle is a smokeless-capable muzzy that you can shoot any sub-powder (or appropriate smokeless powder) you choose.

 

[ElDiablo]

But we are starting to stray from the question you asked with the two choices you have in mind….

 

[MtnManTy]

But we are starting to stray from the question you asked with the two choices you have in mind….

It was inevitable!

 

[ElDiablo]

It was inevitable!

Yep

 

[Hausser1]

I did... I just don't love the hammerless design, or overall look of them... Petty I know, especially as light weight as they are

uh-oh .... them's fightin' words around these parts ..

 

[bluebanana]

I love my Mountaineer but it is too heavy for stalking, perfect in a tree stand or ground blind. I think the UL is the way to go.

 

[Mnt monkey]

If it's possible and you know anyone that has a patriot ask them to look at the rifle put it in your hands shoulder it and aim it and do the same with the other rifles I know that's hard to do the, aesthetics of the Patriot at first glance bothered me a little bit too a few years ago once I had a rifle in hand and saw what it was capable of and how well it was built I fell in love with it ,I'm a simpleton, I probably would have rather had a cocking Hammer outside rather than the internal , but once you get used to that aspect that Patriots sure nice gun, all I know is that I lived in a western state and I had to walk all day long or sit and move and sit and move that lightweight Patriot would sure be nice and as Diablo mentioned the smokeless capable rifles can do anything,, I I'm hard to impress and I'm probably different than a lot of gun lovers I get past the looks and aesthetics real quick when the function and the accuracy is phenomenal, as I mentioned how the rifle shoulders and points I really liked CVA Acuras but for the last two to three years they've really gone downhill in quality i mighty might consider a CVA 50 cal Acura older model, but again no way I would roll the dice on a 45, no offense to those who have 45 Acuras that shoot,,I bought one and I got rid of it about 3 or 4 days later because the bore was so messed up, I would consider an older model CVA Acura maybe from 4 or 5 years I do not trust cva's current quality,, one thing about that Woodman you're not going to have to go out and buy a different plug or take it to a gunsmith and have it worked on so that it shoots clean you can adjust that plug yourself,, I am a bolt action Rifleman myself,, you keep your eyes out Woodman has a bolt action rifle coming.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

True, but I want the load to stay the same, just swap sights as state regs allow, minimize the fiddling between. CO will be the primary

Does CO require an “open ignition”? Some of the NW states do, or did. But idk about CO.

 

[smokem]

Knight without question and for all of the reasons you mention. Cleaning is not as big a deal as people make it out to be. When you carry it to hunt, most of the time the gun does not even get shot. When it does, it's one shot and done, possibly two. You will spend much more time skinning than you spend cleaning the gun. Advantage CVA-gone.
The Knight will shoot. They all do. I've bought three of them and they all shoot better than my other guns. Yes, I did once own a CVA. It was the biggest piece of junk I ever owned. I gave it away after using it one season, bought a Knight MK-85 and never looked back.
Marketing is how CVA got back into the business. They have spent a small fortune on outdoor show promotional shots and stickers. That does not give them a better barrel.
If you are not ready to spring for the Knight (you should) find an old Omega. One that does not have the goofy stock. They are also a good gun, just not as good as the Knight.

For my son who lives in Idaho, we went the route of buying an older LK-93. Idaho places the same constraints on smokepoles as Colorado..I think. For very little money he got a beautiful laminated LK that was almost brand new. It shoots like money and even though it has the older style bolt, it's not a big deal to use it. The bolt pulls out with a few turns and the breach plug threads out in no time. When he takes that gun out it turns heads. When he pulls the trigger, it drops his target.

 

[ElDiablo]

Does CO require an “open ignition”? Some of the NW states do, or did. But idk about CO.

No

 

[MtnManTy]

Does CO require an “open ignition”? Some of the NW states do, or did. But idk about CO.

They do not, so 209s or LRMPs can be used