Breech plug question

[mikehammond_74]

Re: RE: Re: Breech plug question

I remember reading somewhere about someone that was putting a super thin coating of permatex gasket maker on the very end of their BP. They said it worked to "seal" it. Can't remember what gun (I'm thinking it was a TC) or how long ago it was, or where it was. Pretty sure it wasn't here. Food for thought.

I have always put I light coat of white grease on the threads of the breach plug. If that is what you are referring to.

Sent from my B15Q using Tapatalk

 

[ronlaughlin]

This morning a the breech plug was wrapped with one wrap of white teflon tape. Then it was installed into a Omega with 15 inch pound of torque.

Up in the hills the rifle was shot 8 times. The load was 300g XTP, 110g Blackhorn, black crush rib sabot, and Federal 215 primer.

Back at home the plug was removed very very easily using the same torque driver, still set at 15 inch pound torque. Note the plug does not seal on the nose, but there is no flame cut.

 

[WV Hunter]

Re: RE: Re: Breech plug question

I remember reading somewhere about someone that was putting a super thin coating of permatex gasket maker on the very end of their BP. They said it worked to "seal" it. Can't remember what gun (I'm thinking it was a TC) or how long ago it was, or where it was. Pretty sure it wasn't here. Food for thought.

I have always put I light coat of white grease on the threads of the breach plug. If that is what you are referring to.

Sent from my B15Q using Tapatalk

No.

If you look at the pic of the BP that RonL just posted, it would be putting a thin layer of permatex on the top flat edge of the plug...the nose that mates with the barrel. I guess in theory since its a rubber compound, it would compress and "seal". I have no idea if it would work. I use tape like Ron just showed, only wrap it up over the nose so the tape forms the seal between the two flat surfaces.

 

[sabotloader]

Re: RE: Re: Breech plug question

I remember reading somewhere about someone that was putting a super thin coating of permatex gasket maker on the very end of their BP. They said it worked to "seal" it. Can't remember what gun (I'm thinking it was a TC) or how long ago it was, or where it was. Pretty sure it wasn't here. Food for thought.

I have always put I light coat of white grease on the threads of the breach plug. If that is what you are referring to.

Sent from my B15Q using Tapatalk

No.

If you look at the pic of the BP that RonL just posted, it would be putting a thin layer of permatex on the top flat edge of the plug...the nose that mates with the barrel. I guess in theory since its a rubber compound, it would compress and "seal". I have no idea if it would work. I use tape like Ron just showed, only wrap it up over the nose so the tape forms the seal between the two flat surfaces.

Correct a layer of tape over the nose and squeezed between the nose and the shoulder in the barrel will aid the sealing process. A torque of 15#'s is also probably to light.

Like shown in this wrapped plug

 

[Grouse]

A front sealing plug should always have tape on it when shooting 777 or like powders. Sabotloaders pic shows it clearly

 

[Carbide8]

Might sound stupid...
What about permatex? Thin bead on face and shoulder of bp? Understanding it needs time to cure but just throwing it out there...

Or, an actual gasketwith o.d. A couple .001 bigger than inside thread diameter. Food for thought anyway

 

[Carbide8]

http://www.permatex.com/products-2/prod ... ker-detail

 

[Grouse]

http://www.permatex.com/products-2/product-categories/gasketing/gasket-makers/permatex-ultra-copper-maximum-temperature-rtv-silicone-gasket-maker-detail

If it was a permanent plug might be different. I wouldn't want to clean that stuff off the plug or the barrel shelf when done shooting. That would be a mess and if you didn't get it all you wouldn't get a good seal on the plug and shelf when putting the plug back in.

 

[Grouse]

This morning a the breech plug was wrapped with one wrap of white teflon tape. Then it was installed into a Omega with 15 inch pound of torque.

Up in the hills the rifle was shot 8 times. The load was 300g XTP, 110g Blackhorn, black crush rib sabot, and Federal 215 primer.

Back at home the plug was removed very very easily using the same torque driver, still set at 15 inch pound torque. Note the plug does not seal on the nose, but there is no flame cut.

Ron,
For just. 8 shots your plug is very dirty. I wonder if your barrel shelf doesn't need a good cleaning so you get a better seal on your breech plug and barrel when they meet. It doesn't seem like you are getting your plug in far enough to be honest. Tape all the way out on your plug would help that to.

 

[ronlaughlin]

Tom, there must be something wrong with my eyes, because i cannot see a 'problem'. The plug looks like new. It has several hundred shots through, and been in several different rifles. The photo show no flame cutting, and there isn't. The photo show hardly any soot on the threads. There is zero blow by around the plug.

The photo don't show that there was also zero blow by around the primer, but that is what didn't happen i.e. there is no blow by around the nose of the primer.

The plug makes a perfect seal; removes easily; what more does one need?

 

[rangerod]

When I saw the first picture of Ron's plug my first thought was new or nearly so. If there is no gas cutting into the threads the plug is clearly sealing. On the other hand if there was leakage into the threads maybe you would want to wrap as in Sabotloaders example. Related question? I also tape my bp's but use yellow tape made for gasline application. I know some also use a pink tape. Does it matter?

 

[sabotloader]

When I saw the first picture of Ron's plug my first thought was new or nearly so. If there is no gas cutting into the threads the plug is clearly sealing. On the other hand if there was leakage into the threads maybe you would want to wrap as in Sabotloaders example. Related question? I also tape my bp's but use yellow tape made for gasline application. I know some also use a pink tape. Does it matter?

The color of the tape is also related to the thickness of the tape - yellow being thicker than pink or white. The more play you have in the threads the thicker the tape you can use. In my case I do not have a rifle that can use yellow tape in. Most require White and a couple will use Pink.

I believe if the right size is applied correctly the plug will screw in almost like it was a bare plug going. It should be very smooth - not catching, binding, or tearing the tape.

Ron's tape application worked just as he taped it. The plug was protected from blow back in the area taped. The area that wasn't tape was not protected from the blow back gases, heat and pressures and time will wear.

Eventually, if he were not using BH the plug would seize at the exposed nose were enough shots taken.

This might show the difference. This plug was removed from my Knight after 18 shots using 120 grains of T7 and a 300 grain bullet. This is also a 17-4 Lehigh Breech Plug. Again it is my belief that this metal is a better metal for this use that 416 SS. I think you can the benefits of a full wrap and a plug wrapped IMO correctly.

 

[rangerod]

So the correct way to apply the tape (whatever color) is to work it into the threads and not to stretch it?

 

[sabotloader]

So the correct way to apply the tape (whatever color) is to work it into the threads and not to stretch it?

I actually think you are correct with a certain amount of stretch and then a slight packing by turning the plug in your fingers as if you were turning into the breech. Your fingers adhere the tape to the metal and force some of it down into the grooves. If you wrap right after cleaning the tape will adhere even better.

 

[Grouse]

Tom, there must be something wrong with my eyes, because i cannot see a 'problem'. The plug looks like new. It has several hundred shots through, and been in several different rifles. The photo show no flame cutting, and there isn't. The photo show hardly any soot on the threads. There is zero blow by around the plug.

The photo don't show that there was also zero blow by around the primer, but that is what didn't happen i.e. there is no blow by around the nose of the primer.

The plug makes a perfect seal; removes easily; what more does one need?

Your plug clean looks great no doubt. It just looks really dirty for shooting BH209 on the nose of the plug. But if that's normal in your gun I understand. When I put my plug in tight I don't have all that mess when I shoot BH209. But like Sabotloader mentioned I'm using 17/4 as well. I don't use any tape at all, just some rem oil and screw it in.

 

[Squeeze]

That plug is nice and evenly dirty, all the way around up to the tape. Isnt that, theoretically a front sealing plug? It shows no sign of contact with a mating surface. That seems curious to me. (Ron's Omega plug)
I dont own an omega, but the rear doesnt seem to stand proud of the thread enough to be the seal

 

[ronlaughlin]

Once again, this morning, a single wrap of teflon tape was applied to a breech plug. The plug was installed into an Omega with 34 inch pound of torque.

Up in the hills, i managed to set up at 196 yard, and shoot three three shot groups. The first group missed the paper. The second after scope adjustment, measured 2 1/2", the third try measured 3 1/2". The load was 110g Blackhorn, 300g XTP, black crush rib sabot, and W209 primer. At home the plug was eventually removed using the same torque driver. However today it was set at 20 inch pound the first try, but that wasn't enough to remove the plug. The torque adjustment was increased to 24 inch pound, and an attempt was once again made, to remove the plug from the rifle; again the attempt failed. Then the torque was set to 28 inch pound, and the plug came loose, and turned out of the rifle.

 

[ronlaughlin]

That plug is nice and evenly dirty, all the way around up to the tape. Isnt that, theoretically a front sealing plug? It shows no sign of contact with a mating surface. That seems curious to me. (Ron's Omega plug)
I dont own an omega, but the rear doesnt seem to stand proud of the thread enough to be the seal

You are correct, this isn't a rear sealing plug; the ring at the rear isn't proud of the threads.

 

[ronlaughlin]

Today, the breech plug was tightened to 40 inch pound; after shooting, it broke loose at 28 inch pound.

 

[sabotloader]

Today, the breech plug was tightened to 40 inch pound; after shooting, it broke loose at 28 inch pound.

Next opportunity - for a test install the a fresh plug and then remove it be fore it is fired to check the torque. That will give a base measurement.