ENCORE50A said:
Al-53 said:
Like Mike said..i think the petals will do the damage in the entrance area the most and peter of of energy fast...the bullet body will be the power plant ..a right placed shot will not effect the paunch area with the petals...but a gut shot will make a mess...
on a 12" ballistic gel block test I seen...the petals did not leave the block except 1..the block was shot dead center...and at 30-40 yards...so bullet still had plenty of energy at that distance and the petals did not go far...
I see lots of reports of deer kills at 30 40 50 yards and the shooter has 120 grains of powder loaded and says the shock wave exploded on entrance..or penciled thru and no blood...I my self think if you know your average shot is 100yards or less in the area you hunt why use such powerful loads when your shot will most likely be closer..now your bullet has hit the animal exceeding the optimal velocity performance of the bullet...it frags or just rides thru the animal with out expansion...
It clearly indicates in the posted photos above, that the petals exited
that jell. Although the probability may seem small, there's also the probability. I'm in no way saying its a bad bullet and I know I may be calling someone's baby slightly ugly. However bullets that fragment in any manner, certainly have a possibility of entering the paunch. The diaphragm isn't any tougher than the hide and muscle which the bullet passes through first. What happens if upon entry, the bullet strikes a rib?
Really has no effect on the bullet even when shot through the shoulder - the bullet will not open until it encounters fluid. I have shot it through 3 2x6's then a paper target then into a plastic zip lock bag with about 2" of water out of the zip lock and into another target. The petals do not show up until the second target. The petals will not pass through hide even a thin Whitetail deer hide. I have found a petal in muscle tissue on the other side of a deer but it only penetrates about 1/4 - 1/2"
Are we to assume that with this bullet, it has to be shot with a specific adjustment of propellant for it to work properly[/quote]
Tom has tested the bullet down to 800 fps and in fluid it will still work as designed. Lower than that it may open somewhat and act like a normal mushrooming bullet but it will not have enough energy to break the petals off.
and that shot placement must be precise?
No pretty much the opposite - because of the way it operates you can miss the prime spot and as long as you get it into the fluid atmosphere it is going to do significant damage - believe me I know that one for a fact. The White I shot last year the bullet entered high - maybe a couple of inches below the back bone. - but yet the heart and the lung were pierced as well as a petal got the spinal cord.
What happens when a shooter owns a rifle that is only accurate shooting a higher volume charge, while using a specific bullet that should be shot with a lower volume charge? Does a shooter have more contributing factors than necessary?
Not sure I understand this question with the Bloodline high velocity is not the problem - Brass is a very durable substance - the more velocity you shoot it with the longer the range you can expect it to work. Bloodline problems could develop with a velocity of less than 800 FPS.
Speaking only for myself......... I want a bullet that expands as designed, doesn't require a specific velocity to operate properly
All hunting bullets require a specific velocity to work as designed. Especially when you are talking about expanding bullets.
and retains the highest percentage of its original weight. I do not want a bullet that pencils or fragments.
Normally I would have agreed totally with this statement. The fragmenting design came from Germany where people hunt with much smaller caliber rifles than we Americans do. And throughout Europe they harvest large breed deer with these small caliber bullets that designed to do what they do.
Barnes bullets expand as designed to velocities as low as 1,000fps, retain their original weight (minus any polymer tip).
And yet the Nosler Partitions will expand through a wider range of velocities than any bullets of the time and retain 90% of their weight,
There's no fragmentation that may enter the paunch, only shooter shot placement will cause a paunch concern.
Fragmentation is not the best word to describe the action of the Bloodline although that is the easiest word for us to apply. The real description is Segmenting Expansion Bullets.
I'll go back to what muley originally posted, you don't find bad posts about Barnes bullets, other than their price. If they work, continue to use them. Its all about choice......
can not argue that point at all and wouldn't try. But basically that is why I shot Nosler Partitions rather than Barnes in the first place. It was not easy for me to move from them but today - I made the right move. Same thing about pickups I am locked into a Ford while others are not. The only thing I can really say I am really glad today that I had the courage to try something new when it came to the switch from Noslers to Bloodlines. I would not go back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-xOHEKLobQ
Here is my definition of a quality Hunting Bullet.
The Hunting bullet should be the most lethal big game hunting bullet available. The bullet design should allow the bullet to penetrate 2” to 3”, through bone or tissue, before it starts to expand the petals. After the bullet starts to expand or shed it petals it should adversely affect all the surrounding internal organs. The combination between the expansion of the bullet and/or release of the petals and the creation of hydrostatic shock produces a massive wound cavity within the vital area (internal organs) that can be 13” to 15” long. I believe that in most case the bullet should pass through the body providing a secondary exit hole for blood and debris. This massive wound cavity results in the animal dropping fast since most go into shock after such a tremendous blow. Those animals that don’t go down immediately will soon succumb to blood pressure loss and/or organ failure producing a quick ethical kill. Using a bullet matching this description will normally result in an animal that goes down fast so you can enjoy the results of your hunt without having to track the wounded animal after the shot.
You might have a real hard time with the new Lehigh coming out... they have a new bullet with what is called a XP nose. It is non-expanding and non-segmenting bullet. It is a solid and does a great deal of damage by collecting fluids directing the fluid into a column and then shooting a jet stream of internal fluids up and outward cutting organs from the force of the fluids.