Poll--What is the Primary Cause of Blackhorn Ignition Issues

[ronlaughlin]

It is raining here, and seems it will rain all day; not much to do, so make a poll.

 

[Squeeze]

Nice day here, but I dont plan on going anywhere. where I live is an oceanside tourist mecca. Holiday weekend and the locals are overrun with a tourist stampede. I almost went fishing, but then thought it through, and everyone with a boat or jet-ski will be out today, and fishing will just be a lesson in frustration. Im halfway between breech plug and primer choice, as there are so many cap primer ignition guns that are incompatible.

 

[sabotloader]

Think I would go with the same thought I dropped in HuntingNet

1874sharpsshooter;4199102]Ignorance , thats what i think is the primary reason . But i didnt see that listed in the poll so i didnt vote

[/quote]

Think I would really need to agree with you... There is a learning curve when moving from BP & BP subs. Since BH is really a nitro smokeless/progressive burning powder you have to apply a different thought process to shooting it reliably every time. Once the curve is mastered most of your BH issues will be solved.

 

[Lee 9]

The only problem I ever had was carbon up the breach plug at first I had to clean about every 15 shots, then Sabotloader solved that when he suggested drilling all the way through with a #21 drill when we modified the BP's.

 

[Anonymous]

Any primary combo of 2-3-4

 

[ronlaughlin]

Originally Posted by 1874sharpsshooter

Ignorance , thats what i think is the primary reason . But i didnt see that listed in the poll so i didnt vote

Chet, i must respectively disagree.

Citing my own experiences as an example, when i first started using Blackhorn, we were all about as ignorant as ignorant can be. Never once did i ever experience a misfire, or a delay in hundreds, and hundreds, and hundreds of shots.

Why?

After shooting all these hundreds of shots, i started experiencing a delay every now and again--then a dreaded misfire on a perfectly located doe, that i could have driven to within a couple hundred feet.

Why? Surely i was more knowledgeable then, than i was when i first started using Blackhorn.

 

[Hornet22savage]

I voted for #4 BP design, considering that I modified a Knight Rolling Block to reliably ignite BH 209 using a W209 primer. Magnum primers jut compensate for a poor BP design.

 

[ronlaughlin]

For those of you that like choice # 2, here is some reading material.

 

[bestill]

Need2 choices wrong primer or breech plug design

 

[toytruck]

I never had a problem with BH using the deep well BP and W209 primers.

 

[ronlaughlin]

Need2 choices wrong primer or breech plug design

Haven't been able to find the wrong primer in any rifle here. Have tried STS, CCI, CCImag, W209, and 209A.

 

[Squeeze]

LOL now im heading toward "mysterious" :lol:

 

[tpcollins]

I understand a proper breech plug design is necessary for BH209 to supposedly eliminate "blow back". But I'm under the impression that BH209 requires a hot primer to ignite a tightly packed charge. But which scenario would cause a misfire the most:

- a hot primer igniting a tightly packed charge but with a poor design breech plug

or

- a low temp primer with a loose powder charge but with a proper breech plug design

 

[Squeeze]

I dont think Packed or loose powder in a factor at all. the way its an extruded powder, its design inherently leaves small voids throughout the powder column. any bullet should be well seated over any powder. But Packing it, or using excessive seating pressure, in my opinion is a moot factor, or just another internet myth.

 

[bestill]

Need2 choices wrong primer or breech plug design

Haven't been able to find the wrong primer in any rifle here. Have tried STS, CCI, CCImag, W209, and 209A.

Try some triple seven primers in a knight mountaineer and you will have found wrong primer

 

[txhunter58]

I dont think Packed or loose powder in a factor at all. the way its an extruded powder, its design inherently leaves small voids throughout the powder column. any bullet should be well seated over any powder. But Packing it, or using excessive seating pressure, in my opinion is a moot factor, or just another internet myth.

Packing/compression it is not really the question. However, slip fitting/ loose fitting bullets can be. I personally have had some incidents with loose fitting/slip fit conical bullets were not sitting firmly on the powder, and had a misfire as a result.

 

[GM54-120]

Need2 choices wrong primer or breech plug design

Haven't been able to find the wrong primer in any rifle here. Have tried STS, CCI, CCImag, W209, and 209A.

Try some triple seven primers in a knight mountaineer and you will have found wrong primer

I agree a WinT7 is a poor choice. One day just as an experiment i tried quite a few in my 54-120 with 300-385gr bullets. It has a original Lehigh NFPJ conversion. I was very surprised it did so well. The sabots were very tight with these bullets. Temps were fairly warm also.

 

[sabotloader]

Need2 choices wrong primer or breech plug design

Haven't been able to find the wrong primer in any rifle here. Have tried STS, CCI, CCImag, W209, and 209A.

Try some triple seven primers in a knight mountaineer and you will have found wrong primer

I guess I am surprised... they probably should have worked in your Mountaineer or any Lehigh plug.

I would certainly never advise anyone to use the ML designed primers for igniting BH, but I have found that T7 primers WILL ignited the powder just fine if the BP is designed correctly. Another primer lost in the past is the Remington 209-4, the primer was intended for the 410 shot gun and it also has a deduced heat range - but again in the correct Breech Plug and with all the curve factors accounted for they will also ignite BH.

Now the real question is can I find the field target that shows the test...

Buried but found..

 

[Busta]

It would have to be incompatible breech plug design (1), out of the choices, with primer type (2) and loose fitting bullet/sabot (3) not far behind.

I have some breech plugs that will ignite Blackhorn 209 without delay 100% of the time with ANY 209 primer. This includes the 209-4 (410 primers), and all the reduced charge muzzleloader primers. Most of the OEM breech plugs will not allow this, even in warmer weather.

If you are leaking pressure between the primer and breech plug, or you have a loose fitting bullet, you may get away with a bit more in the warmer weather, but when it gets cold, not so much.

When it is time for hunting in our December Muzzleloader Season, I will be using the hotter primers that seal the best in the breech plugs. These would include Federal 209A, CCI-209M, Winchester W-209, and Nobel Sport 209/686 European Primers for my pistol. Never had any problems with any of these, and probably wouldn't with others as long as they fit your breech plug and seal well. I prefer snug fitting saboted bullets, and use two 0.060" veggie fiber wads on my lead conicals that are sized 0.001" over bore size. You just don't want a slip fit bullet sliding off your charge in a hunting scenario. It just wouldn't be a good idea hunting anywhere, but especially in the back country or in the Rockies, miles from the vehicles or civilization.

 

[GM54-120]

use two 0.060" veggie fiber wads on my lead conicals that are sized 0.001" over bore size

I have done the exact same thing in my 45cals with 460gr+ conicals. It seems to work very well but i have not tested it in hunting conditions.