Woodman arms load development. The goal

[Samoset]

Mind you I haven’t found a source for Blackhorn 209 and in the event I have to order online I’m in hopes that I can get primers and powder on the same shipping and hazmat fee.

That being said when I source and obtain those resources I have two goals in mind .

I currently have the rifle set up with the tracker sights woodman offers on their site. I currently have a number of the 225 grain with the blue sabot that woodman offers for the 1:24 twist 45 caliber rifle I purchased from them.

This will be my baseline for load development.

My secondary goal would be to develop a much lighter load that could be used for smaller critters and plinking here on the farm.

Say a 50-60grn by volume load of black horn with a 100-115 grain projectile that out to 45 yards is still on as far as my sights go set up for my primary load.

Is this even an obtainable goal or am I just thinking to far outside the box.

The versatility this would potentially offer would be something special and give a good load to train with for rapid target acquisition.

While not burning up unnecessary powder and maybe training my self to not necessarily fear recoil so much. In the hopes that having a training load gets me out in the woods more often putting more lead on target.

This is all hypothetical of course but in my mind seams to make sence.

 

[Samoset]

Mind you I haven’t found a source for Blackhorn 209 and in the event I have to order online I’m in hopes that I can get primers and powder on the same shipping and hazmat fee.

That being said when I source and obtain those resources I have two goals in mind .

I currently have the rifle set up with the tracker sights woodman offers on their site. I currently have a number of the 225 grain with the blue sabot that woodman offers for the 1:24 twist 45 caliber rifle I purchased from them.

This will be my baseline for load development.

My secondary goal would be to develop a much lighter load that could be used for smaller critters and plinking here on the farm.

Say a 50-60grn by volume load of black horn with a 100-115 grain projectile that out to 45 yards is still on as far as my sights go set up for my primary load.

Is this even an obtainable goal or am I just thinking to far outside the box.

The versatility this would potentially offer would be something special and give a good load to train with for rapid target acquisition.

While not burning up unnecessary powder and maybe training my self to not necessarily fear recoil so much. In the hopes that having a training load gets me out in the woods more often putting more lead on target.

This is all hypothetical of course but in my mind seams to make sence.

Mind you I have found for the most part I am an idiot

 

[LHR]

Mind you I have found for the most part I am an idiot

Well I was going to suggest you get some smokeless powder to start out with while waiting to find BH209, but then you went and offered this tidbit here, so well just nevermind.

 

[Ninering62]

Well I was going to suggest you get some smokeless powder to start out with while waiting to find BH209, but then you went and offered this tidbit here, so well just nevermind.

That’s what deterred me from suggesting the same thing.

 

[Samoset]

Well I was going to suggest you get some smokeless powder to start out with while waiting to find BH209, but then you went and offered this tidbit here, so well just nevermind.

One day , I’m In no hurry

 

[Samoset]

That’s what deterred me from suggesting the same thing.

actually I consider myself fairly competent, however not trying to further complicate my endeavors here lol

 

[LHR]

One day , I’m In no hurry

Take your time, it's certainly not something to rush into.

 

[Dieselden454]

Don't Worry These guys in the forum will steer you straight . Guaranteed !

 

[Ninering62]

actually I consider myself fairly competent, however not trying to further complicate my endeavors here lol

Understood

 

[Decay]

Samoset, Here's what nobody told me when I got my first muzzleloader. And I was a rifle and shotgun shooter for 60 years before that with lots of decades as a reloader and bullet caster. This is a whole new game and so totally different that shooting a modern centerfire rifle. I'm bettin your kind of totally inexperienced here. An I mean no offense. Is the Patriot your first muzzleloader? You got a good one and I have the same one on order.
The very first thing you have to learn about is safety in loading and shooting your muzzy. There's lots of threads here that discuss safety issues that have come up and you should read all about them. Distractions while loading, i.e. talking to anyone, wife, kids, dogs, shooting partners, anyone, ANYONE, !! can cause double loads, space in the barrel between powder and bullet, plugged barrels, misfires, 2 bullets, no bullets, no powder, wrong powder charge, double charge, triple charge, etc. They all happen. And under the wrong circumstances, can cause damage to gun, shooter, and possibly kids nearby. So you develop a system for loading. A sequence. Everyone's is different, but Ninering's is foolproof. Ask him. He'll help you.

I'm guessing that very few are buying Blackhorn anymore at those outrageous prices, and that's a shame. I hope you can afford it. It's a great powder to learn with and it makes clean-up relatively easy. No matter what powder you choose, they all require that you adhere to the same safety measures. I recommend getting a shooting partner that has a lot of experience and work with him face to face. Online videos can be good, but not all are, and you might not be able to tell the difference. I think all of Hankins videos are VERY good.

 

[MrTom]

Samoset, Here's what nobody told me when I got my first muzzleloader. And I was a rifle and shotgun shooter for 60 years before that with lots of decades as a reloader and bullet caster. This is a whole new game and so totally different that shooting a modern centerfire rifle. I'm bettin your kind of totally inexperienced here. An I mean no offense. Is the Patriot your first muzzleloader? You got a good one and I have the same one on order.
The very first thing you have to learn about is safety in loading and shooting your muzzy. There's lots of threads here that discuss safety issues that have come up and you should read all about them. Distractions while loading, i.e. talking to anyone, wife, kids, dogs, shooting partners, anyone, ANYONE, !! can cause double loads, space in the barrel between powder and bullet, plugged barrels, misfires, 2 bullets, no bullets, no powder, wrong powder charge, double charge, triple charge, etc. They all happen. And under the wrong circumstances, can cause damage to gun, shooter, and possibly kids nearby. So you develop a system for loading. A sequence. Everyone's is different, but Ninering's is foolproof. Ask him. He'll help you.

I'm guessing that very few are buying Blackhorn anymore at those outrageous prices, and that's a shame. I hope you can afford it. It's a great powder to learn with and it makes clean-up relatively easy. No matter what powder you choose, they all require that you adhere to the same safety measures. I recommend getting a shooting partner that has a lot of experience and work with him face to face. Online videos can be good, but not all are, and you might not be able to tell the difference. I think all of Hankins videos are VERY good.

This is a very good piece of advice. If I were to add anything here, it would be to communicate directly with Mr. Woodman and ask him what HE suggests for beginning BH209 charges and with which bullets/sabots. After all, he makes the guns and probably has the best of the best info on these matters. If I added anything else it would be to buy a lot of .40 cal 200 grain XTP bullets as they're a super good, middle-of-the-road bullet and weight for casual shooting and are very accurate.

I shoot my Patriot smokeless, but I have taken time to shoot it with BH209 using a charge WEIGHT of 70 grains of BH209 using a 200 grain .40 XTP in a plain blue sabot. This BH load was very accurate at 100 yards and easily had five shots under an inch.

And as for BH209 powder, yes, it's expensive but if I could not find any or it got too expensive to use, I would go to smokeless before I shot any other sub powder other than BH 209 in my Patriot. BH209 is the least corrosive and by far the most issue-free powder of all the blacks and subs. Anything Woodman, rifles or barrels or plugs, is so far ahead of the rest of the usual muzzleloader field that they deserve nothing less than BH 209 or smokeless. Give Mark a call or drop him an email asking where to start with BH209 charges and he'll steer you.

 

[Decay]

Samoset: Re-read what Mr Tom just wrote!

 

[billyboy*]

All Good Advice
You might want purchase some VV N110. A LOT LESS RECOIL than BH 209 in the Lightweight Patriot !
Try starting with 30 Grs VV N110 with a Knurled inexpensive Hornady 200 Gr XTP in a Light Blue Smooth Harvester Sabot for Plinking & Small Game.
Then maybe switch to The 225 Gr Fury or the All Copper 195 Gr Barnes Expander for Big Game !
ENJOY that Patriot

 

[Decay]

Billyboy: Can you tell us what your powder charge is with the N110, shooting the Barnes 195gr Expander in your Patriot, and it's velocity? What is the barrel twist in your Patriot? I want to run some recoil calculations. Thanks

 

[billyboy*]

Can you tell us what your powder charge is with the N110, shooting the Barnes 195gr Expander in your Patriot, and its velocity? What is the barrel twist in your Patriot? I want to run some recoil calculations. Thank

32 Grs VV N110 seems like it is the most promising so far (Iron Sighted)
Haven’t Chronographed the Patriot yet but the 24” Barreled TC Encore is at 2,275 +/- fps
1:24 Twist

Are you going to Compare the Recoil of this Load to 100 Grs by Volume of BH 209?

 

[Decay]

I probably will do a lot of comparisons when I get my Patriot and start developing different loads. That's a pretty stout load of blackhorn for that light rifle I think. I still have a little Blackhorn left in my supply, so it's probable that I'll do that.

 

[Samoset]

Thank you all very much, I am not opposed to working with a alternatives to Blackhorn especially seeing as it’s allusive to me at the moment and it would be a good idea to already have this information worked out should the need arrive, the attractiveness of woodmans patriot to me was the claims that 100grn by volume Blackhorn and 225grn startips and I’d have a high quality hundred yard tracking muzzy.

That I didn’t have to obsess about cleaning.
Even better their claim not clean it.

The cost of the Blackhorn isn’t that huge of a deterring factor as this will be a hunting rifle and after initial site In.

Will maybe shot two dozen times in a year. And that’s if I’m just filling like wasting lead and powder.

I’d likely put one or two shots here on my home range during the off season to make sure the rifle and I are both on.

However if I could find a suitable substitute. That I can actually get my hands on. Reliably it might be worth the endeavor.

Really like the idea of being able to step outside every couple weeks put one or two shots down range and not feel as if I have to go clean the rifle immediately that was the big attraction to this setup to me and one of the things that turned me away from muzzleloading for so long.

 

[Dieselden454]

Sorry Samoset, but that's where I disagree. I own many rifles, rimfire, centerfire, and muzzleloaders. My way is shoot them clean them. That's the way my father taught me. He told me your gun will take care of you if you take care of it. If I ever
have the privilege of owning a Woodman Patriot, I would keep it as clean as a whistle! Hope I didn't offend you in any way, but it was the way I was taught and if I didn't, I would get a foot in my butt!

 

[Dieselden454]

And is the way I taught all of my sons & grandsons.

 

[Decay]

Samoset: Blackhorn is great powder, but its not magic dust. It will attract and hold moisture, just not as much as real black or some others. You still have to clean it before you put it away. One of Blackhorn's values is that you can shoot lotsa consecutive shots without needing to clean after every shot, but it still needs to be swabbed outta the bore when you put it away. Cleaned and oiled.