Question for Mr.Tom

[Matthew323]

Mr. Tom,

Will the North West Breech Plug Conversion Kit from CVA fit into the Optima V2 pistol?

If it does, then it would seem to solve many of my current problems in getting back into muzzleloading.

I would like to shoot Swiss black powder, a lightly-lubricated wool wad, & sub-350 grain, grease groove bullets with wide meplats; using musket caps out of the Optima C2 pistol.

I would hope for this to be cleaner shooting than the dirty shotgun primers. I have no real interest in black powder substitutes, especially Blackhorn209.

I have always been a much better handgun shooter, than either rifle or smoothbore.

I started out at 10 years old with a Crossman Mark 1, single shot, CO2, .22 caliber, pellet target pistol that weighed as much as a full-size adult handgun.

My first experience shooting centerfire pistol was the 1911 in the Army as a medic. Expert all 3 years.

The Optima C2 is selling for $238.00, and the conversion kit is another $35.00 at muzzleloaders.com.

A pair of Talley, Q-D lever, steel, Picatinny scope rings from Optics Planet will cost about $124.00.

Plus, whatever the cost of the Leepers scope like your pistol is wearing. ($123.00 at Optics Planet.) (edit)

That's A LOT LESS than what I've been trying to figure out as far as getting back into rifle shooting. My WANTS far exceed my NEEDS when it comes to rifles.

The choices for black powder pistols that are legal to hunt with are FAR FEWER, thus making my life less complicated. And, the decisions much easier to make.

This pistol looks more comfortable to shoot than the T/C Scout, .54 caliber pistol that I owned in the late 1980's. That thing recoiled with Maxi-Balls, even with a scope on top of it.

How are these Optima's to clean? Are they complicated? That's why I've stayed away from the inline rifles thus far. Do you have to clean the entire back end of the pistol every time you shoot it? To include the trigger group?

Thanks,
Bruce

 

[MrTom]

I only shoot 209 primers so I cannot with certainty say yes it will work, however I can swap my pistol plugs with my Accura and I believe that both the Accura and Optima plugs for #11 cap use screw right in those guns. I'd ask CVA by email for the yea or nay on this. I have zero experience with #11 caps in an inline of any kind. While you have their attention, ask if there is a maximum bullet weight with that Optima pistol.

I have shot a lot of 300 grain bullets from mine thinking it would save a lot of farting around with various bullets it the gun shot the 300 ok. It does. However, the recoil is very significant when compared to a 250 grain or a 240 grain or the Barnes XPB 225 grain that I now use in it. I can't imagine the recoil if one was shooting a 350 grain pill especially with any sort of powder charge. I use 63 weighed grains of 209 to push the XPB and have used the same charge on the other mentioned bullet weights and have actually had a bruised palm when using the 300 grain bullets with as few as six shots. The gun can be a brute with heavier bullets and I can't see that change much even using real black.

The Leapers scope I have mounted on this Optima has been a sweetheart. Its a 2X7 and has the electronic crosshairs that you can choose between the usual black, green or red and I think 6 or 7 degrees of brightness in the colors. Personally I don't even have the battery in mine as I am not a fan of color in the tube and prefer the finer quality of the black crosshair. The scope handles the heavy recoil just fine and once set it stays put. The rings that come with the scope are as solid as cement so I think you can save some jingle in that department if you just leave them. The scope comes with really decent lens covers that pivot up for shooting and the lenses seldom need any cleaning.

My pistol shoots clean with Winchester 209 blue box primers so I can't say how one will shoot with a nipple. Basic cleaning is a snap. I have never ever needed to clean the trigger mechanism. And the factory trigger is just a smidge over three pounds and as crisp as any I have wanted. I haven't touched it. About every third time I clean the gun I pull the fore-end and the barrel and wipe things down well and that's about it outside of scrubbing the barrel and when I do that I rubber band a plastic bag over the scope and have at it. It takes about five minutes to make it squeaky clean.

I've shot several deer with mine and all but one have fallen where they were hit and the one that didn't was so dead and didn't know it it wasn't funny and went about 30 yards with blood pouring out both sides at a walk. The guns are balanced well given the 15" barrel and carry well in a holster. They're simple but deadly. I get near 1" groups at 50 yards. They're everything the long gun big brother offers only in a handful.

 

[Matthew323]

Do you think the shotgun primers would be too hot for real black powder? That's primarily why I was thinking of changing out the breech plug.

To the N.W. breech plug that uses musket caps. With my arthritis, I figured it would be easier to handle the musket caps as opposed to shotgun primers, or #11 caps. Those are both round, and roll. Whereas, the flanges of the musket caps make them easier to handle.

Virtually all of my previous experience is with flintlocks. I've only owned a couple of percussion guns over the years.

An 1860 Army revolver, a .54 Sharps breech muzzleloader, and the T/C Scout pistol. All used #11 caps.

Inlines, and all that they represent, are a whole new world for me. I only know what I have learned online about them, and that's not all that much. I did not own the Scout for very long before I sold it.

Bruce

 

[MrTom]

I've never shot true black with a primer. I'm sure there are some here who have in an in-line and can speak to fouling or crud ring issues. I have arthritis as well and the cold really gets to my finger function but I've never had an issue with the Lane's tubes for powder charges or slipping a primer from a Lane's tube and grasping it to place in the breech plug while hunting. Never an issue at the gun range.

You seldom see one of these guns for sale which goes a long ways towards their value in the field. The ones who follow this site and own them are just the tip of the ice-berg too. Locally I know a dozen guys that hunt with the Optima pistols. Some shoot T7 pellets, some 209 powder. I don't know any that shoot black as its about as rare in this area as it can get. I'd have to travel almost 100 miles to buy a jug.

 

[toytruck]

Bruce,
Another thing you might want to check out is will the 209 firing pin also set off a #11 cap if you go with that ignition.

The optima V2 bore is a tight .500 per CVA. The #11 cap will definitely help with the crud ring. That's why I went with BH209 powder vs T7.

 

[toytruck]

Looked it up and you will have to install a new firing pin kit for#11 caps. The #11 pin is flat on the business end to set off the cap. Kit might be included with the northwest plug as well.

 

[Matthew323]

toytruck

muzzleloader's.com has the CVA N.W. Conversion Kit----Model: AC1697

It consists of:
1.) N.W. firing pin retainer bushing
2.) o-ring for the bushing
3.) N.W. firing pin
4.) N.W. firing pin spring
5.) N.W. QRBP Breech Plug for musket. caps. (NOT #11 CAPS)

This kit fits 2010, or newer models of Optima, Accura, or Wolf series muzzleloaders.

Bruce

 

[toytruck]

toytruck

muzzleloader's.com has the CVA N.W. Conversion Kit----Model: AC1697

It consists of:
1.) N.W. firing pin retainer bushing
2.) o-ring for the bushing
3.) N.W. firing pin
4.) N.W. firing pin spring
5.) N.W. QRBP Breech Plug for musket. caps. (NOT #11 CAPS)

This kit fits 2010, or newer models of Optima, Accura, or Wolf series muzzleloaders.

Bruce

Didn't know the NW plug was for musket caps only. Thanks for the info! I was seriously thinking of switching plugs if they had a #11 plug. I like T7 powder just not with a 209 primer.

 

[MrTom]

With the kit Bruce you should be on your way. But I'd still re-think that 350 grain bullet. I think it would be a wrist breaker. Way too many good jackets bullets and sabots, unless you're restricted in not using sabots. Still there would have to be plenty of good bullets in the 250 grain range that would expand well.

Once, one shot, I did a 325 grain bullet with 80 measured grains of BH209 and the recoil was ridiculous.

 

[Matthew323]

Mr. Tom

My aim with the N.W. breech plug, a RWS 1081 musket cap, real black powder, a lightly-lubricated 100% wool wad, and a grease groove bullet is to bring shooting the pistol down to the least common denominator.

No plastic to clean out of the bore vis-a-vis sabots. No manufactured copper jacketed pistol bullets to purchase. The ability to cast one's own bullets with big, wide meplats that will strike with maximum impact.

Theoretically, if one had access to sheep, you could make your own felt wads if you were willing to spend the time to do so.

Anyway, I will certainly take your advice about the weight of the bullet fired versus the amount of recoil generated into account.

I am going to ask Idaholewis about a .50 caliber Accurate mold design that weighs in at 260 grains in wheelweight metal.

Accurate Molds #50-260B.
0.530" long
0.350" diameter meplat
1 groove
2 driving bands
0.502" diameter bands as designed

Was thinking of having the band diameter increased to 0.505", and sizing down to whatever the barrel prefers.

This bullet should come in at around 270 grains when cast in pure lead.

Is that too heavy? Too much recoil?

Bruce

 

[MrTom]

270 will be manageable. And might be preferable over a longer, heavier bullets in a shorter barrel.

Regardless of how you plan to shoot it, the Optima pistol is a riot to shoot/hunt with. Once you settle in with it you'll love it.

 

[Busta]

I would just keep the 209 primer, but buy reduced primers designed for the muzzleloaders instead of the shotshell magnums.

Mine is the original Optima Pistol, now referred to as the V1. I have shot the 350 grain Hornady FPB's out of mine with Blackhorn 209.

I have owned mine since they first introduced them in the fall of 2011. I put an old proven 1988 2-6x32 Bushnell Trophy scope on it with the intention of buying a Leupold if the pistol was accurate. It's still on there because it was so accurate, I didn't want to change anything at that point. Mine has a 2# 0oz trigger, and is a one hole shooter with my favorite load. 80 grains by VOLUME Blackhorn 209, 200 grain .50/.40 T/C Shockwave bullet ignited by a NSI 209 primer.

I usually document first range sessions and first hunts with any new gun, but not much after that. There is a couple threads from November 2011 if you want to search them out?