Smokeless Patriot observations

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Mnt monkey said:
I clean my Woodman plugs every 15 to 20 rounds, and just do a quick visual around the edges of that bushing, depending on the load I think I'm probably averaging around 60 to 80 rounds I have had a couple that I put more on and I have had a couple that I needed to replace with less just do a quick visual when you've got it broke down cleaning again I very much appreciate the adjustability aspect.
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Any idea why it wore out? I don't shoot super hot loads and am hoping mine will last a very long time.
 
Make sure on the adjustable plug once you get the adjustment length set, be sure you're tighten both ends snug, I'm not sure Sam, I would think myself if the plug gets a bit of carbon fouling the gas is going to start to look for someplace else to find a path, I'm not a fanatic cleaner but even on my other types of plugs that don't have a bushing I break down or I clean every 15 to 20 rounds,, if I had to guess just estimate how many rounds the last year and a half I've put on the adjustable Woodman plugs it's probably somewhere around 3000, again I don't treat my Woodman rifles like they're hunting rifles I have absolutely hammered on, them but the reality is the Patriot, Omega, etc and anything that's lightweight and finesse like that is for practical purposes a hunting gun,most hunting muzzleloaders are not going to get shot near as much as I have. If you're asking a lighter weight finesse rifle to shoot as if it's a target rifle day in and day out I think you need to treat it a little differently, of course being a muzzleloader it needs to be treated different than a Centerfire anyway, and most of us realize that, just keep an eye and vigilance on the edge of your bushings when you break it down, and clean it, put your reading glasses on or grab a magnifying glass and keep an eye on the edges a little bit wouldn't be a bad idea to keep a record if you're a record keeper, see how many shots you get on one before you shoot it out.
 
LHR said:
I’m pretty new at this smokeless thing but have a few observations to share.

Sabots and Cutting Edge bullets/N120 do not play well together for me.

Northern Precision pin points, veggie wad and 56gr. N120 work very well together.
View attachment 37327

I fired this 5 shot group at 100 yards right after a scope adjustment, that first shot after adjusting is always off just a tad.

View attachment 37328
I found this load gave me an average 10 shot velocity of 2531 fps and recoil was stout but very manageable for a light weight Patriot. I have the Brux 1-20 twist 26” barrel.
Primers came out nice , easy and clean with very little blow by. Using the high pressure adjustable plug and Winchester 209’s.

About recoil, this same bullet loaded with 77gr. Weighed charge of BH209 was somewhat painful to shoot. Just as accurate, but not nearly as fun to shoot, maybe because the cost is so much higher with BH209. But BH209 velocity was only 1950 fps compared to the 2531fps of N120, I expected recoil with smokeless to be brutal and it just wasn’t!

When I ordered the high pressure breech plug kit , Mark sent me the stainless bushing and mentioned the carbide bushing was back ordered. Is the carbide bushing going to make a difference?
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Over 30 ft-lbs of recoil
😳😳
 
In anticipation of receiving my Patriot in September, I was looking for load data yesterday and reports on velocity. I found 11 different loads that folks have used and their velocities. I plugged that data into the JBM recoil calculator and got some numbers on recoil energy that I'm not going to like. Years ago, when working with my 45-70 in a Marlin 1895, and reaffirmed with my 7mmSTW, I learned that 21 ft lbs of recoil energy was MY tolerance limit off MY benchrest, if I wanted to shoot a lot. Hunting is A LOT different with additional clothes and recognizing it'll only be 1 shot. These are calculated numbers, not felt recoil.
Using 5.75 lbs for the weight of my rifle (peep sight and sling), various bullet weights from 175 grains to 225 grains, multiple Blackhorn and smokeless charges at various velocities, I see that this gun is gonna kick. Several of you have already commented that it does. I'll tame it down to suit me, and I know some of you have done that too. The lowest recoil energy load I found was 27.3 ft lbs, the highest was 41.5ft lbs. This is only playing with numbers when I'm not fishing.
I really am looking forward to receiving this rifle. It suits my hunting style perfectly. And my Marlins are gonna hate it, cuz they might stay in the safe a little more than usual.
 
Decay said:
In anticipation of receiving my Patriot in September, I was looking for load data yesterday and reports on velocity. I found 11 different loads that folks have used and their velocities. I plugged that data into the JBM recoil calculator and got some numbers on recoil energy that I'm not going to like. Years ago, when working with my 45-70 in a Marlin 1895, and reaffirmed with my 7mmSTW, I learned that 21 ft lbs of recoil energy was MY tolerance limit off MY benchrest, if I wanted to shoot a lot. Hunting is A LOT different with additional clothes and recognizing it'll only be 1 shot. These are calculated numbers, not felt recoil.
Using 5.75 lbs for the weight of my rifle (peep sight and sling), various bullet weights from 175 grains to 225 grains, multiple Blackhorn and smokeless charges at various velocities, I see that this gun is gonna kick. Several of you have already commented that it does. I'll tame it down to suit me, and I know some of you have done that too. The lowest recoil energy load I found was 27.3 ft lbs, the highest was 41.5ft lbs. This is only playing with numbers when I'm not fishing.
I really am looking forward to receiving this rifle. It suits my hunting style perfectly. And my Marlins are gonna hate it, cuz they might stay in the safe a little more than usual.
Click to expand...
You may just have to bite the bullet on gettin that muzzle threaded & use a brake on it brother.
 
Ninering62 said:
You may just have to bite the bullet on gettin that muzzle threaded & use a brake on it brother.
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While dirtier, you could consider traditional black powder or a slower burning BP substitute. I recently switched to a fairly light Traditions Pursuit (6lbs) not including the sling and scope. While I settled on 90 grains (by volume) of BH 209, I noticed that 90 grains of Pyrodex caused even less recoil. It was more of a “push” than a “kick”.
 
Finnblade said:
While dirtier, you could consider traditional black powder or a slower burning BP substitute. I recently switched to a fairly light Traditions Pursuit (6lbs) not including the sling and scope. While I settled on 90 grains (by volume) of BH 209, I noticed that 90 grains of Pyrodex caused even less recoil. It was more of a “push” than a “kick”.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your post & welcome to the forum.
It doesn’t sound like you’re familiar with the gun we’re talking about here.
It’s a smokeless muzzleloader….so, NO black powder or Pyrodex EVER!
I understand the diff recoil signatures of the diff powders & so does Decay.
The only smart move here is to get the brake or only shoot light smokeless charges with lighter bullets in the Patriot bc it’s so light.
A Traditions - anything, doesn’t belong in the same convo really.
 

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