Surprise at the range

[Dutch]

Goexblackhorn,

I do notice heavier recoil. I believe it is proportional to the load. However I do like the cornmeal option. I think I will try that just to see what happens. Thank!

 

[Dutch]

Fwiw...I have a number of plunger rifles (mostly MK-85's). In almost 25yrs shooting them, I've never had an issue with caps coming apart or flying out at all. In fact, most times after firing they end up stuck in the face of the hammer. I just re-cock the hammer, roll the rifle over and tap on the stock...and the spent #11 cap falls out.

I could see where its possible to potentially have an issue if you used real heavy loads... or BH209 (which is not recommended). The heavy loads can force the plunger back and can even re-cock the rifle is what some have reported. I've never had that happen, but the most I've ever used was 110gr, and my goto loads are often less than that. I have shot some heavy conicals a few times with about 80gr powder, no issue there either.

Just my personal observations. (off topic I know, sorry Dutch)

I had a re-cock with my BK92. I was using 100 grains of BH and shot a nice six point. That was the first shot where I ever had a re-cock. It was the last time I shot BH in a plunger style gun. But I do have to say this was back when BH was first introduced. There was not much talk here about incompatibility with plunger guns. Now we are better informed.

In addition to the BK92, I have three MK85's. I've done a lot of plunger gun shooting over the years. I have had caps stick on the nipple, stick in the face of the plunger, and break apart into pieces. I've not had anything fly back towards my face. But I know things do happen (like re-cocking) so I always wear glasses when I shoot them.

 

[GoexBlackhorn]

Goexblackhorn,

I do notice heavier recoil. I believe it is proportional to the load. However I do like the cornmeal option. I think I will try that just to see what happens. Thank!

My range tackle box has a black plastic powder flask filled with yellow cornmeal for dispensing. I also use a separate brass measurer for the cornmeal, leaving it set at 25 grains.

The guy I learned that trick from shoots conicals/roundballs only. He started me with 80 grains of cornmeal.... mind-you, I was shooting tight sabots that day.

OMG! When using my typical 90gr powder load, it (felt-recoil) was like I poured 175gr of 777 FFF down that bore. To this day, he still uses 80gr of cornmeal and I've slowly cut it back to 25 grains. That's more-than-enough to fill the hollow plastic cups on the plastic sabots and provide a nice shot buffer.

 

[Grouse]

I had done videos many many years ago with a Plunger gun with 110grns of either pyrodex or 777 and I believe it was a 400grn conical maybe made by T/C or for T/C. I also did a video with a Traditions Flintlock at the same time. I saw on Randy Wakemans sight some scary videos of it and found it hard to believe so I did it myself. i can't honestly say I still have them but I bet I do. But it's going to be awhile before I go back to work to look at them. I would love to see someone else do it but the key is very low light conditions and a descent camera on a tripod. Another time I videod the red plastic jackets in a Knight Elite comparing them to the bare primer back then. I would love to do or see another video of today's bare primer in a Knight against a bare primer of old. These tests are done at almost dark at the range. After sunset for sure. Ronlaughlin has great equipment and could do the bolt testing in Knights but I don't think he has a plunger gun. If I had one I would send it to him. All good stuff and you can judge for yourself if it's done right.

 

[flounder]

All I can say is that I am very skeptical. I have been searching to see if I could find one single incident of a lawsuit involving a #11 primer flying back and injuring the shooter from a plunger style inline. I also asked an attorney friend to search his online law library and she couldn't find anything either. All my currently owned muzzleloaders are of the "plunger" type and I have fired many many rounds without incident and I feel no fear of using them correctly.
BTW, you are going to get a lot of barrel leading shooting a lead conical with that hot of a charge. Experienced shooters know that it is not necessary and is actually detrimental to the accuracy and effectiveness of this type of projectile.

 

[Grouse]

All I can say is that I am very skeptical. I have been searching to see if I could find one single incident of a lawsuit involving a #11 primer flying back and injuring the shooter from a plunger style inline. I also asked an attorney friend to search his online law library and she couldn't find anything either. All my currently owned muzzleloaders are of the "plunger" type and I have fired many many rounds without incident and I feel no fear of using them correctly.
BTW, you are going to get a lot of barrel leading shooting a lead conical with that hot of a charge. Experienced shooters know that it is not necessary and is actually detrimental to the accuracy and effectiveness of this type of projectile.

I don't know of anyone ever getting injured or severely injured like your stating. If I said that someone got hurt shooting one of those guns my mistake and I'll correct it if you send me a link to correct it. It must be on Huntingnet so I'll log in and do that right away when you get me it. I think someone could easily get cut or hit by a number 11 but that's my opinion and that's why I would only shoot red plastic jackets and a 209 Primer. The weight of the primer and the jacket will keep it from flying in my opinion and that would make for another good video to see which is safer and less blow back coming towards face if any. Setting up a tripod and a camera is so easy to do and can solve any questions or concerns at all. I think back when I did this I couldn't afford a tripod and borrowed one.

As far as your comment about leading and conicals. The only time I would need to do such a thing would be Elk hunting in the Northwest during ML season. I don't think you'll find to many people shooting less then 110grns of powder and probably atleast a 350grn bullet. Leading would be no factor at all when hunting cause my barrel would be clean. And if it did get leading I would clean it with a proper solvent to get rid of it like Barnes CR-10. But you got your ways I got mine.

I forgot the part of being skeptical. I'm that way on just about everything. That's why I take the time and test whatever it is that makes me feel that way. CVA has been a perfect example for me.

 

[Muley Hunter]

Slow motion videos always look scary. Ever see one of a flintlock? It makes you want to sell all of them.

A caplock throws off pieces of caps too. Most of the time you never know it and could shoot all your life with no problems. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I can see a plunger gun doing the same thing.

 

[Dutch]

Slow motion videos always look scary. Ever see one of a flintlock? It makes you want to sell all of them.

A caplock throws off pieces of caps too. Most of the time you never know it and could shoot all your life with no problems. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I can see a plunger gun doing the same thing.

Agreed. A case rupture on a CF rifle can be scary as well.

 

[Dutch]

Just one last update to this topic. I went back to the range today. It was 8 degrees and the sun was shining. :shock: l am still getting three shot groups at about 3/4" with 130 grains of 2F T7 under a .429 XTP with the green MMP sabots. I have found the perfect load for this rifle. ( I am sure a five shot group would be a little larger because there is a little luck in play. After making some scope adjustments it was just too cold to shoot any more!)

Now I will experiment with other bullets and loads. Because that if half the fun of muzzleloading. But when I hunt next fall, the XTP will get the call for sure.

This Knight Ultralite is a fantastic rifle. I could not be happier!

 

[ourway77]

I too believe 777 is easier to ignite I never have had a misfire with 777 but I have with BH-209 in my Knight Master Hunter I use the red plastic primers some have told me to get a bare primer system for the rifle. I have just bought a Knight Mountaineer 45 so The only shooting with the Master Hunter will be at the range