TC Shockwaves bullet concern
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: TC Shockwaves bullet concern
There are a lot of good bullets out there, I like barnes TMZ and TEZ 250 or 290 grains, but I like pushing them with a little more, like 110 grains of Blackhorn 209 powder, that combination would be good out to 200 yards if you do your part. One note if you ever want to try Blackhorn 209 in the CVA you will have to buy the Blackhorn Breach plug for it.
Another great bullet is the Nosler .44 Cal 240 grain .029 dia JSP (Jacketed Soft Point), I've killed many deer starting in 1984 to now. Gun used was a T/C .54 Renegade using a T/C 3 piece Sabot and 100 grains of Pyrodex Select. Also out of a T/C Encore Pro Hunter using 110 grains of Blackhorn 209 powder and a Harvester green crush rib sabot. Both guns shot the bullet with about 1" groups @ 100 yards. Small hole in 1" or better out with awsome blood trails, if your shot placement is right. I have had bang flops with this bullet with 100 yard shots. Results are consistant every time, no bullet failures, it is a joy to shoot and I would say if sighted in 2 1/2" high at 100 yards it would be good to about 150 yards. Cheap to shoot also, The last time I bought them I got 250 bullets for about $56.00, they are a little higher now, from Midway USA https://www.midwayusa.com/product/48801 ... box-of-250
Or Midsouth Shooters Supply https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/ ... -250-count
Forgot to give you a link for Nosler bullet sabots https://www.harvestermuzzleloading.com/ ... cal-bullet
Every gun is different but I have never heard a bad or mixed review from anyone I recommended the barnes or Nosler 240 grain bullet to.
I would steer clear of the Power Belt Bullet, I never had much luck with accuracy @ 100 yards, the power belt bullet is another bullet with mixed reviews, personnaly CVA does make a reliable and quality gun, but they do push White Hot powder and powerbelt bullets. With that said I hate to say anything against CVA, their Warranty, Quality and Customer service is great. I know from experience.
You will get a lot of good recommendations from this forum, and a lot of opinions. Your greatest experience will be gained on the range with your gun. Possibly no two identicle guns from the same manufacturer will shoot the same, you will have to find out what your gun likes on the range. Recomendations of proven bullet performance from use is consistant with any gun, if your gun doesn't shoot a bullet good @ 100 grains try lowering or raising the powder charge a little, that is hard to do shooting pellet powder, but the results may surprise you. Also using a different sabot can change the results also.
Good luck in the field and on the range.
PS. If you want to use triple 7 @ 100 grains with the above bullets try it. Your gun may shoot it the best. This is what muzzleloading is all about.
By the way Lee 9 made a comment about some people not being able to see a blood trail, I am color blind (Red & Green) I couldn't track a blood trail from a deer if my face was up the deers butt!!!! I have to have the shot and the bullet that puts them down fast. I have never lost a deer. but I did give up shooting shock wave bullets, I have a drawer full of SST 250 & 300 grains and have heard many reviews of bullet failure and know of one instance personally where a nice buck was almost lost. Shot was at 100 yards with 100 grains of BH 209. SST's though I like them stay in the drawer when it comes to hunting.
livetohunt228 said:
There are a lot of good bullets out there, I like barnes TMZ and TEZ 250 or 290 grains, but I like pushing them with a little more, like 110 grains of Blackhorn 209 powder, that combination would be good out to 200 yards if you do your part. One note if you ever want to try Blackhorn 209 in the CVA you will have to buy the Blackhorn Breach plug for it.
Another great bullet is the Nosler .44 Cal 240 grain .029 dia JSP (Jacketed Soft Point), I've killed many deer starting in 1984 to now. Gun used was a T/C .54 Renegade using a T/C 3 piece Sabot and 100 grains of Pyrodex Select. Also out of a T/C Encore Pro Hunter using 110 grains of Blackhorn 209 powder and a Harvester green crush rib sabot. Both guns shot the bullet with about 1" groups @ 100 yards. Small hole in 1" or better out with awsome blood trails, if your shot placement is right. I have had bang flops with this bullet with 100 yard shots. Results are consistant every time, no bullet failures, it is a joy to shoot and I would say if sighted in 2 1/2" high at 100 yards it would be good to about 150 yards. Cheap to shoot also, The last time I bought them I got 250 bullets for about $56.00, they are a little higher now, from Midway USA https://www.midwayusa.com/product/48801 ... box-of-250
Or Midsouth Shooters Supply https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/ ... -250-count
Forgot to give you a link for Nosler bullet sabots https://www.harvestermuzzleloading.com/ ... cal-bullet
Every gun is different but I have never heard a bad or mixed review from anyone I recommended the barnes or Nosler 240 grain bullet to.
I would steer clear of the Power Belt Bullet, I never had much luck with accuracy @ 100 yards, the power belt bullet is another bullet with mixed reviews, personnaly CVA does make a reliable and quality gun, but they do push White Hot powder and powerbelt bullets. With that said I hate to say anything against CVA, their Warranty, Quality and Customer service is great. I know from experience.
You will get a lot of good recommendations from this forum, and a lot of opinions. Your greatest experience will be gained on the range with your gun. Possibly no two identicle guns from the same manufacturer will shoot the same, you will have to find out what your gun likes on the range. Recomendations of proven bullet performance from use is consistant with any gun, if your gun doesn't shoot a bullet good @ 100 grains try lowering or raising the powder charge a little, that is hard to do shooting pellet powder, but the results may surprise you. Also using a different sabot can change the results also.
Good luck in the field and on the range.
PS. If you want to use triple 7 @ 100 grains with the above bullets try it. Your gun may shoot it the best. This is what muzzleloading is all about.
By the way Lee 9 made a comment about some people not being able to see a blood trail, I am color blind (Red & Green) I couldn't track a blood trail from a deer if my face was up the deers butt!!!! I have to have the shot and the bullet that puts them down fast. I have never lost a deer. but I did give up shooting shock wave bullets, I have a drawer full of SST 250 & 300 grains and have heard many reviews of bullet failure and know of one instance personally where a nice buck was almost lost. Shot was at 100 yards with 100 grains of BH 209. SST's though I like them stay in the drawer when it comes to hunting.
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Long Range said:
No it is not the same bullet. FTX is a cup and core bullet. Monoflex in a solid guilding metal monolithic bullet similar to a Barnes. Side by side the 325gr FTX and 250gr Monoflex though look very similar. Both were designed to perform at roughly modern 45/70 speeds which is pretty close to a modern inline ML too.
The Monoflex 250gr can be had in .452 with sabots or in bulk 458s (50 pack) for reloading 458 rifles. Sabot selection is somewhat limited in 458 but its still an option.
The Mono Flex 250gr bullet is not .458 it’s .452 it was made for the 450 bushmaster and it can be bough in 50 packs without sabots.
You can buy the 250gr and 300gr SST’s In 50 packs without sabots too.
You can also buy the .429 caliber 265gr Ftx bullets in 50 packs. They where made for the 444 marlin.
You can also buy the 200gr ftx .452 in 50 packs made for the 460 S&W
You can also buy the .452 225gr ftx made for the 45 colt in a 50 pack.
Depending on how much powder your shooting and the velocity of the bullet all these bullets should work out of a muzzeloader. They are all different bullets and if you check the velocity rates for them should mushroom and work differently. The 225gr ftx made for the 45 colt is the softest and should mushroom best out of smaller pounder charges and with likely come apart out of a maximum charge.
You can buy the 250gr and 300gr SST’s In 50 packs without sabots too.
You can also buy the .429 caliber 265gr Ftx bullets in 50 packs. They where made for the 444 marlin.
You can also buy the 200gr ftx .452 in 50 packs made for the 460 S&W
You can also buy the .452 225gr ftx made for the 45 colt in a 50 pack.
Depending on how much powder your shooting and the velocity of the bullet all these bullets should work out of a muzzeloader. They are all different bullets and if you check the velocity rates for them should mushroom and work differently. The 225gr ftx made for the 45 colt is the softest and should mushroom best out of smaller pounder charges and with likely come apart out of a maximum charge.
They do make .458 250gr and 325gr monoflex bullets made for the 45/70. It’s not the same 250gr monoflex made for muzzleloaders though but you can get 50packs and buy sabots.
They also make a .429 265gr interloc Flat Point with exposed lead for the 444 that you can get in 50packs.
They also make a .429 265gr interloc Flat Point with exposed lead for the 444 that you can get in 50packs.
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NO they do NOT make a 325gr Monoflex. The 325gr is a FTX and totally different construction than a Monoflex. Ive talked to Hornady about the .452 and .458 Monoflex and i was told its the same besides the caliber. There is no need to change anything else. A modern inline can break 2000fps with a 250gr bullet no problem. The Hornady 45/70 250gr Monoflex ammo produces very similar speeds so why would they change a thing? https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifl ... olution#!/
Do you see a 325gr Monoflex listed here? https://www.hornady.com/bullets/monoflex#!/
The 452 Monoflex was sold only with sabots as a ML bullet. It was never marketed for the Bushmaster. I tried to get them loose in bulk when they first came out. They dont even offer their Bushmaster ammo with the Monoflex
The .452 250gr FTX/SST and 300gr FTX/SST were both sold in bulk for ML and reloading use at one time. Now you can only buy the .452 250gr FTX in bulk or either weight with sabots
BTW the 452 225gr FTX comes in packs of 100. Great fun bullet but i wont use them for hunting. They shoot great in my NULA. Ive never gotten the 200gr made for 460S&W to shoot worth a poop in any rifle. Sabotless maybe with the right load but it aint happening with low pressure smoker loads
Do you see a 325gr Monoflex listed here? https://www.hornady.com/bullets/monoflex#!/
The 452 Monoflex was sold only with sabots as a ML bullet. It was never marketed for the Bushmaster. I tried to get them loose in bulk when they first came out. They dont even offer their Bushmaster ammo with the Monoflex
The .452 250gr FTX/SST and 300gr FTX/SST were both sold in bulk for ML and reloading use at one time. Now you can only buy the .452 250gr FTX in bulk or either weight with sabots
BTW the 452 225gr FTX comes in packs of 100. Great fun bullet but i wont use them for hunting. They shoot great in my NULA. Ive never gotten the 200gr made for 460S&W to shoot worth a poop in any rifle. Sabotless maybe with the right load but it aint happening with low pressure smoker loads
If you look at Hornady’s website the 250gr Monoflex is solid copper and mushrooms a lot like the Barnes Bullets. They have some pretty impressive pictures of how it mushrooms and it says it’s guaranteed to maintain 95% of its original weight.
If you have watched any of the tv hunting shows over the years. They are all almost sponsored by either Thompson Center or now Traditions. So they are shooting either Shockwave or Smackdown buellets which are both Hornady SST’s. So SST’s don’t have a probablem killing deer.
If you have watched any of the tv hunting shows over the years. They are all almost sponsored by either Thompson Center or now Traditions. So they are shooting either Shockwave or Smackdown buellets which are both Hornady SST’s. So SST’s don’t have a probablem killing deer.
Well they all 3 should be muzzeloader specific bullets because the is no cannelure grove on them. I called Hornady and tried to get some load data for the 300gr SST for my 20in Katahdin 460s&w barrel for my Tc Prohunter. They wouldn’t give me any because it didn’t have a cannelure on it. So all the regular rifle and pistol bullets should have one.
The one on the left looks like a 250gr monoflex because the groves under the red top are cut deeper.
The one on the right looks like a 250gr SST
The one in the middle has me confused it looks bigger around and it’s shorter. I’m going to guess 300gr fpb
The one on the left looks like a 250gr monoflex because the groves under the red top are cut deeper.
The one on the right looks like a 250gr SST
The one in the middle has me confused it looks bigger around and it’s shorter. I’m going to guess 300gr fpb
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Bubba, Stumpy, Bubba’s cousin Cletus
WPrather said:
Not true about the cannelure. I have factory loaded Hornady Black 250 grain FTX .450 Bushmaster ammo with no cannelure. Shoots pretty darn good groups out of my CVA Scout V2. Bang-flops bucks right where they stood.
https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifl ... x-black#!/
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livetohunt228 said:Hey everyone! Happy Holidays!! Looking for some advice, suggestions or knowledge. Bought my 1st muzzleloader over the summer, it's a CVA Optima V2. I love it! Shot it throughout the summer and shot a few different loads but settled on 2 triple seven pellets(100 grain), a 250 grain TC Shockwave sabot bullet and a 209 primer as it was hitting the most consistent. I got the gun shooting pretty decent out to 100 yds. As someone who doesn't and hasn't shot guns much, I was very happy to be consistently hitting the target at 100 yds. Now fast forward to muzzleloader season. I was fortunate enough to shot a nice buck, shot him at 63 yds, broadside and ended up hitting him a little farther back from where I was aiming. Got on the 1st spot of blood which was very hard to find, found it maybe 60 yds from where I shot him, it was where he entered the timber so some blood was see able on some light brown colored grass. I followed a very sparadic blood trial, a drop here, a drop there for another 40 yds. Found my best spot where the deer must of stood for a moment and that was the last spot of blood I/we found. Decided to back out and get on it 1st thing in the am. Got back out at 1st light and picked up the track and could not find another drop of blood from the previous spot the night before. So I decided to walk in circles looking for blood and or the deer and eventually went up hill a bit to a really thick area. I got on a deer trail that ran E to W and stopped and looked up, then down several times before to my absolute surprise, looked forward and saw him laying there. I couldn't believe it. This was now roughly 200 yds from where I had originally shot him. Was truly beyond excited!! Too add to the story, my brother who I was hunting with also shot a great buck using the same load except he was using 150 grains of triple seven. He shot his at 70 yds and again we had no blood. It only went 50 yds as he double lunged it and there was barely any blood where we found him laying. Upon gutting him it remained all inside and it was with a pass through, both deer had pass throughs. We're mostly bow hunters and are used to getting good blood after our shots. My concern is the amount of blood that was put out from both these deer. I'm talking barely anything. I've heard that muzzleloaders don't necessarily put out good blood trails, don't know if this is true or not but I can't imagine this is normal. Or is it? Is it the bullet... the Shockwaves? Anyone experience this issue with this bullet or others? I'm new to this and this is the 1st deer either of us have taken with a muzzleloader. Any advice or knowledge would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!!
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I have been thinking (OH, OH) you are not going to want to buy a box of 250 bullets to try some to see if your gun will shoot them. PM me your address and I will send you 10 Nosler 240 grain JSP bullets with sabots, that way you can see If you want to develop a load or not. Shooting only pellets won't give you much leave way but you can get an idea of how they will shoot.
Busta said:
Bang Flop! Don’t lie every body knows Hornady bullets won’t kill deer.lol I have bang flopped a lot of deer over the years with Hornady bullets. Several have been with the 250gr SST with 150grs of 777.
The 250gr SST for muzzeloaders and the 250gr FTX for the 450 bushmaster must be the same bullet. They use that bullet in the 20ga slugs too.
The guy at Hornady told me they didn’t make any Center Fire bullets without a cannelure. He wouldn’t give me any load data at all for the 300gr SST out of the 460 S&W. He said they will work just fine we just can’t release any reload data on a bullet without a cannelure. So I just used the 300gr XTP Mag load data and kept bumping it up until it showed signs of pressure and backed it off a little.
livetohunt228
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: TC Shockwaves bullet concern
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d.windsor, thanks SO much for the reply and all the great info and links. I can't tell you how much that was appreciated! I hope you have a great holiday!! Take care and thanks again!!d.winsor said:
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