What kind of conical is this?

[ETipp]

Because the base is on the back end it contributes absolutely nothing for expansion(unless loaded backwards ! The front profile on a cast bullet expands with pure and hardness dictates rate of expansion along with distance /speed.
A flat nose is preferred in my case for max expansion at BP speeds (no gas check) , a deer hit with a Lyman Plains ,pick the calibers (I have them all) and adjusting alloy at your proffered yardage becomes fairly predictable Bang/flop ! Unlike the hollow base (have them too) that depends on charge to flair base(engage rifling) and thickness of skirt another variable to contend with (lousy SD 's)if you have a chrono) . In short great if your hunting indians and need fast reloads , but not so much trying to increase the fast food take (deer) Ed

Thanks for the information. I don't want nor need any more variables.

 

[451whitworth]

A couple years ago they were supposedly going to reopen, in Colorado maybe? They had a new website and were posting on a FB page, Anyway wherever it was it seems to have fizzled out.

It was to re-open in Nevada, they were originally in California. I can't imagine how California looked at a business that used lead and was in the shooting/hunting sports.

 

[drpatton]

I don’t think it’s a Buffalo Bullet. I don’t recall any without the crosshatch pattern on the sides. All of their .50 and .58s I have look like this.

 

[drpatton]

I don’t think it’s a Buffalo Bullet. I don’t recall any without the crosshatch pattern on the sides. All of their .50 and .58s I have look like this.


View attachment 28324

Same Bullet.

 

[ETipp]

I would still think that having a big hollow point base would have to mushroom out on impact regardless. Not as much as on the front, but when one considers the energy at impact, all the weight and lead has to go somewhere. Considering there is no barrel to contain it, I would think it would spread in every direction.

Am I looking at this correctly?

 

[user 30396]

Same Bullet.

View attachment 29425

I have something quite similar, same company, same packaging and label except mine are 300 gr. I also have 5 boxes of 50 ea. of Buffalo Bullet "Ball-ets" that are 245 gr. with a really short conical with a ball like nose. Those shoot great out of my TC Grey Hawk pushed by 90 gr. of Pyrodex RS or 75 gr. of Pyrodex P. Have taken one deer and one large south Texas hog with the rifle. Got the Ball-ets for a song at an end of season Walmart sale so I stocked up and bought all they had. What a fun way to hunt!

 

[Bad Karma]

Someone gave me a few of these about 12 years ago. I have never fired one of them and I do not recall what the name of it is. I was thinking Buffalo Bullet, but I am not sure. What I do like about them is the deep hollow base. I mean that thing is deep, as in perhaps 5/16" to 3/8" deep. This leads me to believe that it will expand upon firing and hopefully expand more upon impact. Is my thinking correct on this?

I inserted this one by hand just a little ways down the muzzle of of my old smoke pole. I found that it easily slides down in, too easy when compared to the Maxi Balls I have shot the most. Is this due to allowance for the base to expand upon firing and will it expand enough to provide a good enough seal for good accuracy. It appears to be made out of fairly soft lead.

Do you think this will make an effective hunting bullet for my .50? View attachment 28319View attachment 28320

Lyman makes that mold. It’s called the improved minie. Lyman #445-599… I cast a few hundred of those years ago. They worked ok in my daughters TC Seneca with a tablespoon sized piece of raw wool as an under bullet wad. I still have the mold somewhere.

 

[Bad Karma]

I would still think that having a big hollow point base would have to mushroom out on impact regardless. Not as much as on the front, but when one considers the energy at impact, all the weight and lead has to go somewhere. Considering there is no barrel to contain it, I would think it would spread in every direction.

Am I looking at this correctly?

You don’t want to overload these. The base will expand after the bullet leaves the muzzle and you’ll be lucky to keep it on paper. When she was using them I cast from a 30:1 alloy and didn’t load more than 60 grains of 2f in her Seneca. She killed a few deer with it. Never recovered a bullet so I couldn’t say if they expanded much if at all. Still, a 45 caliber hole in and out sure ruined the rest of their day.

I do see what you’re saying, (finally) No. I don’t believe the inertia of the skirt would be enough to expand or flare outward upon impact. Guys have posted a bunch of pictures of battlefield recoered minie balls and I don’t recall seeing any flared skirts unless the shooter was exceeding the service loads.

 

[eekjellander]

I would still think that having a big hollow point base would have to mushroom out on impact regardless. Not as much as on the front, but when one considers the energy at impact, all the weight and lead has to go somewhere. Considering there is no barrel to contain it, I would think it would spread in every direction.

Am I looking at this correctly?

NO !!! the front expands , the rear is only for engraving rifling and eliminating blow by/gas cutting not killing stuff .That is as explained the (front ends job )

 

[ETipp]

NO !!! the front expands , the rear is only for engraving rifling and eliminating blow by/gas cutting not killing stuff .That is as explained the (front ends job )

I fully understand how a hollow point functions, as well as the hollow base functions and the purpose of it. However, with the base being so thin, it still seems as if it will expand expand more upon impact. Perhaps not much, but it still seems as if something that is going so fast and hits so suddenly hard, that a thin base would expand, at least some.

 

[Bad Karma]

I fully understand how a hollow point functions, as well as the hollow base functions and the purpose of it. However, with the base being so thin, it still seems as if it will expand expand more upon impact. Perhaps not much, but it still seems as if something that is going so fast and hits so suddenly hard, that a thin base would expand, at least some.

Maybe, under a microscope… .58 caliber minies have a much thinner skirt (which is why this and others like it are called “improved“) and as noted, there’s really no evidence for the skirt flaring under impact.

 

[eekjellander]

I fully understand how a hollow point functions, as well as the hollow base functions and the purpose of it. However, with the base being so thin, it still seems as if it will expand expand more upon impact. Perhaps not much, but it still seems as if something that is going so fast and hits so suddenly hard, that a thin base would expand, at least some.

I'm almost done with this , you seem to not at all grasp the context . The front mushrooms and rolls back toward the base (NOT) the other way around !!! Prove it shoot one and see not a hollow base but the concept is the same @200 yds there is no way a hollow base goes forward prove it yourself with a hollow base in sand there is no way /Ed

 

[ETipp]

I'm almost done with this , you seem to not at all grasp the context . The front mushrooms and rolls back toward the base (NOT) the other way around !!! Prove it shoot one and see not a hollow base but the concept is the same @200 yds there is no way a hollow base goes forward prove it yourself with a hollow base in sand there is no way /Ed

As I have said, and with respect, I fully understand how a hollow point works. Been at this for many years with all kinds of projectiles and firearms.

However, with a hollow base, I have seen multiple penetration tests where the rear of a hollow base bullet has been hugely upset due to overexpansion. That's if there was enough remaining of the bullet to see. You could plainly see what was left of the much enlarged hollow base. Had that been a solid base, would the bullet not have over-expanded as much? After all, a solid base would provide more solid lead to help keep the rest of the bullet in tact and moving along.

Perhaps I'm looking at this wrong, but that's what it appears to be with some of the recovered hollow base conical bullets.

 

[drpatton]

As I have said, I fully understand how the hollow point works. Been at this for many years.

However, with a hollow base, I have seen multiple penetration tests where the rear of a hollow base bullet has went to pieces due to overexpansion. You could plainly see what was left of the much enlarged hollow base. Had that been a solid base, would it not have over-expanded as much?

Either you work nights or you are like me and can't sleep.
The thickness of the skirts on the hollow base is the key. The original Minnie had one which would over-expand with heavier loads. The new & improved Minie has a thicker skirt and requires a heavier load just to expand in the bore. It won't be a problem in the field. I found this out shooting a .58 Minnie in competition many, many moons ago.
So, yes, you can over drive a hollow base, but those bullets designed for hunting, should be thick enough for your purpose. Check out the bottom of a Minnie ball. It's relatively thin, then check the bottom of a hollow based hunting bullet. There should be a huge difference.

 

[ETipp]

Either you work nights or you are like me and can't sleep.
The thickness of the skirts on the hollow base is the key. The original Minnie had one which would over-expand with heavier loads. The new & improved Minie has a thicker skirt and requires a heavier load just to expand in the bore. It won't be a problem in the field. I found this out shooting a .58 Minnie in competition many, many moons ago.
So, yes, you can over drive a hollow base, but those bullets designed for hunting, should be thick enough for your purpose. Check out the bottom of a Minnie ball. It's relatively thin, then check the bottom of a hollow based hunting bullet. There should be a huge difference.

Indeed. I've never been accused of being a good sleeper. My wife says I can hear a mouse fart in the front yard at 1:00 A.M. However, I now live in EST zone (against my will) so there may be a time difference. I also begin to flame out sooner of an evening so I bed down early.

I did a little testing yesterday on a .50 caliber Buffalo Bullet, as well as a HGP bullet. It was a very delicate and highly sophisticated scientific test. I took them out to my garage and placed them on top of my large vise. Then, using a smaller ball peen hammer, I pounded the daylights out of each of them. I began at the base of each one. Didn't take much force to destroy the bases.

I do understand the physics of the hollow bases. However, at this point I think I be best served with a solid projectile. IMO, that additional solid material at the aft of a bullet will help drive the bullet deeper, as well as help reduce over-expansion.

 

[eekjellander]

Indeed. I've never been accused of being a good sleeper. My wife says I can hear a mouse fart in the front yard at 1:00 A.M. However, I now live in EST zone (against my will) so there may be a time difference. I also begin to flam out sooner of an evening so I bed down early.

I did a little testing yesterday on a .50 caliber Buffalo Bullet, as well as a HGP bullet. It was a very delicate and highly sophisticated scientific test. I took them out to my garage and placed them on top of my large vise. Then, using a smaller ball peen hammer, I pounded the daylights out of each of them. I began at the base of each one. Didn't take much force to destroy the bases.

I do understand the physics of the hollow bases. However, at this point I think I be best served with a solid projectile. IMO, that additional solid material at the aft of a bullet will help drive the bullet deeper, as well as help reduce over-expansion.

Why I don't use hollow base for hunting or target . I save hollow base for the 58 when the Indians are coming or Red coats ,I'm equal opportunity and like to shoot if it's after dinner

 

[ETipp]

Why I don't use hollow base for hunting or target . I save hollow base for the 58 when the Indians are coming or Red coats ,I'm equal opportunity and like to shoot if it's after dinner

Understood. I am not sold on hollow base bullets. Not bashing them because some people obviously like them. But I think this ole boy will stick with sold base bullets.

 

[drpatton]

Indeed. I've never been accused of being a good sleeper. My wife says I can hear a mouse fart in the front yard at 1:00 A.M. However, I now live in EST zone (against my will) so there may be a time difference. I also begin to flam out sooner of an evening so I bed down early.

I did a little testing yesterday on a .50 caliber Buffalo Bullet, as well as a HGP bullet. It was a very delicate and highly sophisticated scientific test. I took them out to my garage and placed them on top of my large vise. Then, using a smaller ball peen hammer, I pounded the daylights out of each of them. I began at the base of each one. Didn't take much force to destroy the bases.

I do understand the physics of the hollow bases. However, at this point I think I be best served with a solid projectile. IMO, that additional solid material at the aft of a bullet will help drive the bullet deeper, as well as help reduce over-expansion.

I live in Pennsylvania, so I also have to abide by the Eastern Standard Time Zone. I have to deal with a lot of spasms in my legs, which can keep me up at night.
I knew you understood the dynamics of hollow points and how hollow bases worked. I did want to make sure you knew, the New and Improved Minie had thick skirts and wasn't effected by large charges.
What you choose to use and why, is your choice and your business. I use what works for me and that may be different from you and vice versa.

 

[ETipp]

I live in Pennsylvania, so I also have to abide by the Eastern Standard Time Zone. I have to deal with a lot of spasms in my legs, which can keep me up at night.
I knew you understood the dynamics of hollow points and how hollow bases worked. I did want to make sure you knew, the New and Improved Minie had thick skirts and wasn't effected by large charges.
What you choose to use and why, is your choice and your business. I use what works for me and that may be different from you and vice versa.

Understood. The few Mini bullets I had that someone gave me year ago, which I posted the pics of, the skirt was fairly easy to squash down but the walls were thicker than the old original Mini that I have from the civil war.

I did not know that the new and improved Mini were not by large powder charges.

Thank you for the information. I'm learning a lot from this forum.

 

[451whitworth]

Understood. I am not sold on hollow base bullets. Not bashing them because some people obviously like them. But I think this ole boy will stick with sold base bullets.

I'll be the odd man out as I like thick skirt hollow base bullets. I find them very forgiving when reloading over powder fouling as in hitting to the same Point Of Impact. I have a few rifles that will not group flat based bullets to the same POI as the first clean barrel shot if I reload over fouling like in a hunting situation. On the target range I don't mind swabbing between shots but not when I'm hunting. I liked the now defunct Buffalo Bullets super thick base skirts, the Lyman 542622 and Lyman 533476 (modified to drop .541"). In my four .54 caliber rifles only 2 of them( Lyman GPH & Knight LK-93) will shoot a flat based bullet to the same POI over powder fouling in a hunting situation. But they will all shoot to same POI whether the barrel is clean or fouled with thick skirt hollow base bullets like the previously mentioned Buffalo Bullets, defunct Hornady GP, and Lyman's 542622 & 533476. Why this is I have no idea. I have experimented extensively with the two that won't shoot a flat base to the same POI with a clean barrel and a follow up dirty reload (a rebored from .50 to .54 Rem 700 ML & T/C Renegade) with no such success. Fiddling with powder charges, using felt wads, card wads, combinations of the 2, failed to work.