Muzzleloader brake

[Matthew323]

I am sure it works but some of the brakes remind me of the old poly chokes or corn cobs on the end of barrels.

I had to spend some time getting my head in the right place in order to come to grips with the size & shape of the MZ REX2 brake. Then, I asked myself what was more important, how sleek the pistol looked, or fitted into a holster.....

Or, how much recoil my now osteoarthritic shoulders, and eventually, my osteoarthritic hands, were going to be able to handle? And the answer obviously was to just deal with the looks of the brake.

When Doc White finishes the Javelina laminated stocks, then I will be able to shoot the V2 pistol two-handed, with both arms extended in a modified Weaver stance, utilizing a tactical sling slung cross-body around one shoulder & single-point attached to the bottom of the pistol grip. Creating a long line of support starting at the rear of the strong-hand's shoulder blade, extending along the sling, through the strong-hand's wrist, and out through the weak-hand's wrist & fingers. With the weak hand pushing against the stubby Javelina pistol grip on the forearm, and the strong hand pulling against the ambidextrous pistol grip where the trigger resides.

As MUCH as I long to shoot large caliber, flintlock, patched ball rifles from the shoulder, I have a sinking sensation that those days are far in my past. No matter what combinations of modern & 18th Century technology I mix together.


Maybe, maybe, maybe, JUST MAYBE, (if I had the money), a Colerain, short (21" long), octagon-round, .62 caliber, patched ball barrel, with gain twist rifling; could be made into a contemporary version of an English Sporting Rifle. Halfstock with an Alexander Henry forearm. Steel underrib, and a single forward ramrod pipe. Kick-eez Magnum recoil pad set at 13" L.O.P. Thread the muzzle for a custom, .62 caliber, MZ REX2 muzzle brake. Brass bead front sight dovetailed into the barrel behind the brake. Tall enough to be seen over the brake. Ghost ring rear sight mounted with 2 screws on the tang, non-adjustable. Breech of barrel to be approximately 1.342" across the flats octagon, to allow for Talley scope ring dovetail bases to be machined directly into the top flat of the octagonal breech. Mount a Schmidt & Bender, Exos, 1-8 × 24mm riflescope with an illuminated FD7 (German #4 style) reticle in low, Q-D Talley rings. Put a Jim Kibler CNC round-faced English flintlock on it with a Jim Chambers stainless steel White Lightnin' touch hole liner.

Such a rifle is probably the only way I can ever shoot offhand to hunt big game again. Of course, such a rifle would send shivers of horror up the spines of every traditional muzzleloading shooter that saw it.

Otherwise, I'll be using the Optima V2 pistol because it won't batter my shoulder joints. And, with the brakes, I can manage recoil by choosing bullet weights

 

[Ninering62]

I love the thought of function over looks or history dictates ,resulting quite often on superior performance as long as it is allowed . Better scores or short blood trails are to be encouraged /applauded , hang on to the past but do not bad mouth the future /Ed

Well said sir. I do not believe that one has to give up one aspect for having another when most times both can be had/done & work just as well. If I were to put something on my hand built custom antique Harley that gave me 50 more HP, but it looked like 2 monkeys with hammers made it & it stands out like an outhouse in Beverly Hills, its NOT staying on my bike. My only focus then would be is on how to make that part look like it was professionally engineered & belongs on the bike. Then it can go back on it. Same on my guns. I do insist on having both.

 

[Barn]

There's some good brakes available. Have you determined rather you want a radial or tactical? If.... you shoot prone, you really don't want a radial.
Expensive brakes are worth the money. Those selling for $49.99 aren't worth a crap.


What makes one a tactical and another radial? Would sourced materials a difference in performance or longevity, as in aluminum vs steel vs stainless?

 

[Ninering62]

I am sure it works but some of the brakes remind me of the old poly chokes or corn cobs on the end of barrels.

Yessss exactly. My father has my grandpaws really really old Browning A5 with the Poly Choke on it. Thats what they remind me of
as well.

 

[Barn]

I had to spend some time getting my head in the right place in order to come to grips with the size & shape of the MZ REX2 brake. Then, I asked myself what was more important, how sleek the pistol looked, or fitted into a holster.....

Or, how much recoil my now osteoarthritic shoulders, and eventually, my osteoarthritic hands, were going to be able to handle? And the answer obviously was to just deal with the looks of the brake.

When Doc White finishes the Javelina laminated stocks, then I will be able to shoot the V2 pistol two-handed, with both arms extended in a modified Weaver stance, utilizing a tactical sling slung cross-body around one shoulder & single-point attached to the bottom of the pistol grip. Creating a long line of support starting at the rear of the strong-hand's shoulder blade, extending along the sling, through the strong-hand's wrist, and out through the weak-hand's wrist & fingers. With the weak hand pushing against the stubby Javelina pistol grip on the forearm, and the strong hand pulling against the ambidextrous pistol grip where the trigger resides.

As MUCH as I long to shoot large caliber, flintlock, patched ball rifles from the shoulder, I have a sinking sensation that those days are far in my past. No matter what combinations of modern & 18th Century technology I mix together.


Maybe, maybe, maybe, JUST MAYBE, (if I had the money), a Colerain, short (21" long), octagon-round, .62 caliber, patched ball barrel, with gain twist rifling; could be made into a contemporary version of an English Sporting Rifle. Halfstock with an Alexander Henry forearm. Steel underrib, and a single forward ramrod pipe. Kick-eez Magnum recoil pad set at 13" L.O.P. Thread the muzzle for a custom, .62 caliber, MZ REX2 muzzle brake. Brass bead front sight dovetailed into the barrel behind the brake. Tall enough to be seen over the brake. Ghost ring rear sight mounted with 2 screws on the tang, non-adjustable. Breech of barrel to be approximately 1.342" across the flats octagon, to allow for Talley scope ring dovetail bases to be machined directly into the top flat of the octagonal breech. Mount a Schmidt & Bender, Exos, 1-8 × 24mm riflescope with an illuminated FD7 (German #4 style) reticle in low, Q-D Talley rings. Put a Jim Kibler CNC round-faced English flintlock on it with a Jim Chambers stainless steel White Lightnin' touch hole liner.

Such a rifle is probably the only way I can ever shoot offhand to hunt big game again. Of course, such a rifle would send shivers of horror up the spines of every traditional muzzleloading shooter that saw it.

Otherwise, I'll be using the Optima V2 pistol because it won't batter my shoulder joints. And, with the brakes, I can manage recoil by choosing bullet weights

That third paragraph is amazing. I wish I understood a 1/4 of it or why that part was inserted into your wishlist. It intimidates the crap out of me as a newbie who hasn't even shot my new ML. Thanks for giving me another someone to aspire to become on this forum.

Yall keep 'em coming, I'm still learning about how to do it right. THANKX Barn

 

[ENCORE50A]

Barn
Notice that military sniper rifles have tactical brakes.

Go back to posts 5 & 7, those are tactical brakes.

This is a radial and happens to be from Harrell's. These are the brakes that used to come on Ultimate Muzzleloaders Inc. rifles.

 

[ENCORE50A]

The brake in the following video contains a disk which blocks most of the muzzle blast, and piercing sound off of the shooter.
It is a simple idea that could be added to many commercial muzzle brakes.
If you do not believe it works, try it on a 50 BMG.

Remington 700UML Converted to 45 Smokeless: The real "Ultimate" muzzleloader... - YouTube

Just asking but............ where's the videos of the brake and that ring performing?
I reviewed all your youtube videos and none of them show the setup actually being shot. A good slow motion video would help.

 

[Barn]

The info being freely given on this site is amazing. I'm still confused, but not so much so. Thanks to others who throw questions as well. New opinions as well as established beliefs make us all better Human Beings. Too bad we aren't able to cross all avenues in the US of A. Some day I'll be rich and famous too.....

 

[ENCORE50A]

The info being freely given on this site is amazing. I'm still confused, but not so much so. Thanks to others who throw questions as well. New opinions as well as established beliefs make us all better Human Beings. Too bad we aren't able to cross all avenues in the US of A. Some day I'll be rich and famous too.....

Getting answers is easy, sorting them out sometimes isn't.

Something my dad (R.I.P.) used to say and I wish I'd have practiced more but, you do learn over time...... "If you don't have the money or time to do it right the first time, where will you get the money or time to do it over?"

We all just have to sort things out real well before making a decision, or rather we should. Way to many times do we ALL have to do things over because we tried to save a few bucks.
Its not that one opinion will work, as even three opinions may work for an application, even though two might be better. Deciding which is right for your application and LONG TERM PLANS is what we all have to sort out. Ask questions and review answers and research. Then......... make a decision

 

[Matthew323]

Getting answers is easy, sorting them out sometimes isn't.

Something my dad (R.I.P.) used to say and I wish I'd have practiced more but, you do learn over time...... "If you don't have the money or time to do it right the first time, where will you get the money or time to do it over?"

We all just have to sort things out real well before making a decision, or rather we should. Way to many times do we ALL have to do things over because we tried to save a few bucks.
Its not that one opinion will work, as even three opinions may work for an application, even though two might be better. Deciding which is right for your application and LONG TERM PLANS is what we all have to sort out. Ask questions and review answers and research. Then......... make a decision

This forum is one of the best places online to find information on all types of muzzleloading firearms, not just traditional sidelocks, nor just modern inlines.

Solutions to almost any problem can usually be had by posting a question. There is a wealth of knowledge here.

I had been looking to re-enter muzzleloading for some time, and was just about set to pull the trigger on another custom longrifle, when I got the bad news from the doctor about the osteoarthritis. And where should said osteoarthritis decide to present itself just months after the diagnosis? In my shoulders, and so far, no where else.

That's why, after long, long thoughts; prayer; several phone conversations with Doc White; and the permission of the generous person who gifted me a T/C Renegade; I decided to trade the rifle for my current CVA Optima V2 pistol. And, spend a fair amount of money modifying the pistol to be as friendly as possible for a 67-68 year old shooter/hunter who has progressive osteoarthritis in his shoulders.

It's NOT that the doctors FORBID me to shoot shoulder-mounted weapons, but that they DISCOURAGED me strongly from any activity that was going to stress my joints. And, while the pain in my shoulders now is negligible, IT WILL NOT ALWAYS BE THAT WAY.

If the Optima V2 pistol works out as well as I believe it will, then perhaps I might have a custom, big bore, flintlock, long-barreled, Javelina stocked pistol made up by a builder willing to work with me.

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

Just asking but............ where's the videos of the brake and that ring performing?
I reviewed all your youtube videos and none of them show the setup actually being shot. A good slow motion video would help.

Remington 700UML Converted to 45 Smokeless: Part 2 - YouTube

The 275 grain Parker BE at about 3,000 fps produces around 5,000 foot-pounds of energy.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Remington 700UML Converted to 45 Smokeless: Part 2 - YouTube

The 275 grain Parker BE at about 3,000 fps produces around 5,000 foot-pounds of energy.

Its hard to notice rather that ring thing is on the barrel but we'll say it is. Still some blow back as you can watch that piece of plastic hanging there.
I see nothing special happening......... ????

That 275gr Parker BE could literally explode upon impact with an animal at that velocity. The BE really isn't made for that kind of speed as Bob will tell you. If its working for you keep using it.

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

Its hard to notice rather that ring thing is on the barrel but we'll say it is. Still some blow back as you can watch that piece of plastic hanging there.
I see nothing special happening......... ????

That 275gr Parker BE could literally explode upon impact with an animal at that velocity. The BE really isn't made for that kind of speed as Bob will tell you. If its working for you keep using it.

The ring only blocks the shockwave off of the shooter, because the ring is between the shooter and the ports on the brake. It would not help someone standing slightly to the side of the shooter, because they would be outside of the cone. If you can look and see a port, the shockwave is going to hit you in that position.

If you enjoy the feeling of being slapped in the face when using a rifle with a brake, do not use this device.

It you enjoy the shrill eardrum-splitting sound from the ports of a brake, do not use this device.

If this device is not found on most rifles, it is probably just a gimmick that will never work.

When I sent the deer ribcage video to Bob Parker, Bob said he was glad the bullet was working well for me. This rifle does not have a brake on it. I used an extra recoil pad instead.

(1) Smokeless Muzzleloader: 275 grain Parker BE at 3,000 fps Effect on Deer - YouTube

.

 

[ENCORE50A]

The ring only blocks the shockwave off of the shooter, because the ring is between the shooter and the ports on the brake. It would not help someone standing slightly to the side of the shooter, because they would be outside of the cone. If you can look and see a port, the shockwave is going to hit you in that position.

If you enjoy the feeling of being slapped in the face when using a rifle with a brake, do not use this device.

It you enjoy the shrill eardrum-splitting sound from the ports of a brake, do not use this device.

If this device is not found on most rifles, it is probably just a gimmick that will never work.

When I sent the deer ribcage video to Bob Parker, Bob said he was glad the bullet was working well for me. This rifle does not have a brake on it. I used an extra recoil pad instead.

(1) Smokeless Muzzleloader: 275 grain Parker BE at 3,000 fps Effect on Deer - YouTube

.

The video shows exactly what I mentioned, the bullet came apart. "Shrapnel Effect" as stated in the video. It would be a bad deal to hit one in the shoulder. As I mentioned, Bob is not going to recommend the BE for velocities of 3,000fps and would recommend the BM or MH instead. Just like he won't recommend the MH for Ultimate rifles, rather that be a RUM or UF Inc. However, he'll sell you anything you like. He's not going to tell someone that sends him a photo anything other than, 'glad its working for you'.
And I'll say, if the bullet is working for you, keep using it.

I don't get slapped in the face using my brake. It was designed correctly in the first place. Quite evident by the nighttime photos of how the brakes work.

ALL brakes are loud, every single one of them and it doesn't matter rather its a radial or tactical brake, your brake or my style brake. Wear ear protection even when hunting if using a brake.

I won't say that your brake won't work, nor will I say that ring contraption doesn't do something. However properly engineered brakes do not need other contraptions on the end of the barrel. I know of a lot of SML shooters and have seen a crap load of their rifles and other than your rifle, I've never seen a ring contraption on the end of anyone's barrel. Must be a new product that shooters don't know about yet?

Sorry, but I'm not convinced.

 

[Matthew323]

The thing that sold me on Levi Reed/LR Customs brakes is the fact that there is a very small reduction in the decible level. It might only be a couple of decibles of reduction compared to a barrel without a brake on it; but when you consider that most brakes are moving the spent energy behind the bullet BACK TOWARDS the shooter, thus bringing an ADDITIONAL volume of sound towards a shooters ears; that makes an LR Customs brake so much better.

And tells me that the man at least has some inkling of how fluid dynamics works because the blast energy is not only pushing the muzzle down, but forcing those spent gases away from the shooter.

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

The video shows exactly what I mentioned, the bullet came apart. "Shrapnel Effect" as stated in the video. It would be a bad deal to hit one in the shoulder. As I mentioned, Bob is not going to recommend the BE for velocities of 3,000fps and would recommend the BM or MH instead. Just like he won't recommend the MH for Ultimate rifles, rather that be a RUM or UF Inc. However, he'll sell you anything you like. He's not going to tell someone that sends him a photo anything other than, 'glad its working for you'.
And I'll say, if the bullet is working for you, keep using it.

I don't get slapped in the face using my brake. It was designed correctly in the first place. Quite evident by the nighttime photos of how the brakes work.

ALL brakes are loud, every single one of them and it doesn't matter rather its a radial or tactical brake, your brake or my style brake. Wear ear protection even when hunting if using a brake.

I won't say that your brake won't work, nor will I say that ring contraption doesn't do something. However properly engineered brakes do not need other contraptions on the end of the barrel. I know of a lot of SML shooters and have seen a crap load of their rifles and other than your rifle, I've never seen a ring contraption on the end of anyone's barrel. Must be a new product that shooters don't know about yet?

Sorry, but I'm not convinced.

After I delivered the first of these rifles the customer called me a few days later to show his appreciation. He said he had killed a large eight point buck at about 250 yards, with a shoulder shot. The customer did tell me he had to throw the shoulder away, due to its destruction.

So far, nobody has called to tell me they lost a deer which was shot with this bullet.

I am glad that you build better brakes than mine. Therefore, you are obviously unbiased in this discussion.

The wonderful thing about this forum is that it allows new ideas to be discussed, and for differences of opinion.

Anyone can put a piece of solid material between a source of sound and their ear, to find out how the laws of physics actually work.
That is what I did.
I am a retired science teacher.

Have a nice day.

 

[ENCORE50A]

After I delivered the first of these rifles the customer called me a few days later to show his appreciation. He said he had killed a large eight point buck at about 250 yards, with a shoulder shot. The customer did tell me he had to throw the shoulder away, due to its destruction.

So far, nobody has called to tell me they lost a deer which was shot with this bullet.

I am glad that you build better brakes than mine. Therefore, you are obviously unbiased in this discussion.

The wonderful thing about this forum is that it allows new ideas to be discussed, and for differences of opinion.

Anyone can put a piece of solid material between a source of sound and their ear, to find out how the laws of physics actually work.
That is what I did.
I am a retired science teacher.

Have a nice day.

For the record.......... I do not build brakes. I know the top quality builders who do.

Yes, lots of ideas are shared on this site, some good, some average and some bad. There is a TON of experience on the site from all walks of life.

As I mentioned, if something is designed and engineered correctly for a specific application, it doesn't need other objects. No other builders use your system. The top shooters in the Nation do not use a similar system, nor do the top CF shooters. Maybe its because they've never heard about it.

I'm a retired Human Factors Engineer (Ergonomist)

Sorry, I know people do not like others calling their baby ugly. As others have mentioned, they don't like even the looks of it on the barrel. It may work, heck I don't know, I've never shot it but, a product designed and engineered correctly IMO is superior.

 

[mnoland30]

I was sitting behind my friend as he shot his 300 WinMag. I was directing his gaze to the game, so I wasn't wearing hearing protection. and he fired without warning. I wish he'd had a disk. To misquite Forest Gump, "ugly is what ugly does". I'm not sure brakes or suppressors ever look good, but they sure make shooting more pleasant, and probably more accurate.

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

For the record.......... I do not build brakes. I know the top quality builders who do.

Yes, lots of ideas are shared on this site, some good, some average and some bad. There is a TON of experience on the site from all walks of life.

As I mentioned, if something is designed and engineered correctly for a specific application, it doesn't need other objects. No other builders use your system. The top shooters in the Nation do not use a similar system, nor do the top CF shooters. Maybe its because they've never heard about it.

I'm a retired Human Factors Engineer (Ergonomist)

Sorry, I know people do not like others calling their baby ugly. As others have mentioned, they don't like even the looks of it on the barrel. It may work, heck I don't know, I've never shot it but, a product designed and engineered correctly IMO is superior.

Do not worry about hurting my feelings. I was a middle school teacher for 29 years. I have very thick skin. This could be affirmed by the student who bit me while I was carrying him to the office during my first year in education.

Before COVID-19, some of the best bench rest shooters in the Southeast met on the first Saturday in April for the Hickory Groundhog Match in Vale, NC.

Terry Brady is a world record holder, and a very humble man. If you will listen to men like this, you can learn a great deal. Thankfully, he and others like him were a great inspiration and a source of knowledge to me.

On the first Saturday in April during 2017 even a blind squirrel found a nut.
First prize was a NightForce scope and 300 dollars.

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

How does the disk help block the sound off of the shooter?

In many ways sound waves and light waves react in a similar manner. Both can be absorbed, or reflected.

Imagine a brake with LEDs (Light Emitting Diodes) placed in the holes of the brake, near the outer surface of the brake.
Imagine that these LEDs emit light equally in all directions.

If you turned out the lights in a room and turned on the LEDs in the brake, someone holding the rifle in a normal shooting position would be illuminated by the light energy coming out of the brake. Why? Because there is nothing between the source of light energy and the shooter.

We cannot see the energy of sound waves. However, they travel in a similar manner from the holes in a brake.

Now we will do the same thought experiment with the brake containing the LEDs, but this time we will put the disk on the back of the brake.

We can cut out the lights in the room, and cut on the LEDs in the brake. Now most of the light coming from the brake does not hit a person in the shooters position, because they are in the shadow produced by the disk. Anyone standing to the side of the shooter would be illuminated.

This is the basic Physics behind the device.


If anyone here thinks the disk is ugly, that is OK with me.
I promise not to build one for your rifle.