16 twist 45 caliber remigton 700

[Ga.Smokey]

Right now I shoot three bullets, which depends on whether I'm just shooting to stay in tune with the gun at the range or actually hunting. 200 grain , .40 cal XTPs for the general range shooting. 195 grain Barnes Expander in .40 cal has been the hunting bullet thus far. A 225 grain Fury Star Tip will be hunted during the "24" season this fall. Each bullet is shot with a fixed, 56 grain charge, of IMR4198 in a blue, non-crush rib, Harvester sabot. Winchester 209 primers. The only chrono work I've done with any of the loads was pretty much impromptu and I didn't record the FPS, but memory recalls the 195 and 200 going downrange at around 2350 or so, but probably a bit faster than that.

Makes sense.
I was thinking bullet to bore..45 bullet for some reason
Someone mentioned a 16 twist barrel on another build? Was that you tom
How do you think the plastic will hold up to 16 twist?
I'm going to find out real soon.
225 furry 402 and HLB

 

[MrTom]

I shoot the 225 grain Fury Star tip which takes a sabot in the 45 and out to somewhere in the +2300 fps range the sabots show zero signs of stress. I probably won't run the 225 any harder.

I am not interested in bullet to bore. My hunting distances seldom stretch to 100 yards and within that range every bullet I shoot in the Patriot is deadly accurate with sabots. I have seen zero incidents of keyholing, so I know the loads are moderate enough to avoid that issue. The three bullets I have shot in the Patriot so far have been stable but I think if I stretch out to much more than, say 240 grains, the bullet length will become problematic in the 1:16, especially if velocity is booted up and I can see where bullet to bore may become an issue as well.

 

[Ga.Smokey]

I shoot the 225 grain Fury Star tip which takes a sabot in the 45 and out to somewhere in the +2300 fps range the sabots show zero signs of stress. I probably won't run the 225 any harder.

I am not interested in bullet to bore. My hunting distances seldom stretch to 100 yards and within that range every bullet I shoot in the Patriot is deadly accurate with sabots. I have seen zero incidents of keyholing, so I know the loads are moderate enough to avoid that issue. The three bullets I have shot in the Patriot so far have been stable but I think if I stretch out to much more than, say 240 grains, the bullet length will become problematic in the 1:16, especially if velocity is booted up and I can see where bullet to bore may become an issue as well.

Not sure I understand your concerns over bullet length as the fast twist is exactly why I used the 1/16 over the slower
1/18 or 1/20
Maybe I need a 1/14 twist.......

 

[MrTom]

I'm thinking there may be stability issues if a .40 bullet gets too long due to it's weight with a 1:16 barrel. Honestly its not a concern for me since I won't be shooting anything over 225 grains in a .40 pill.

 

[ENCORE50A]

I can assure all that this 40cal bullet, shot BTB, is EXTREMELY accurate out to 1,000yds with a 1:17 twist. A 1:16 would be better.

https://parkerproductionsinc.com/co...-caliber-402-dia-250gr-match-hunter-flat-base

 

[MrTom]

No long distance for this guy.

 

[Ga.Smokey]

I will primarily be shooting bullet to bore in this rifle. As it evolves it will be interesting to see the effects of different things.
I will test with some sabots but I have a 20 twist savage and an 18 twist cva scout to play with sabots in
The idea behind this build was primarily to test with.
I'd bet it would shoot at distance well rides the bags better than it should.

 

[ENCORE50A]

No long distance for this guy.

Yup, understand, but that long 307gr bullet would be extremely accurate with a 1:16.
If I were to build another rifle and a 40cal, it would definitely have at least a 1:16 twist.

 

[Ga.Smokey]

Yup, understand, but that long 307gr bullet would be extremely accurate with a 1:16.
If I were to build another rifle and a 40cal, it would definitely have at least a 1:16 twist.

In 40 caliber I'd probable go with a 1/14 or
1/13 twist.that 307 might be approaching 1.7 inches
That's a good looking bullet for sure.
Only problem I can see with light jackets and soft jacket material necessary for obturstion is over rotation ripping the bullets apart.
Hankins has figured something out with his 3800 ft sec rifles the balance of twist rate and stability can be finicky

 

[ENCORE50A]

In 40 caliber I'd probable go with a 1/14 or
1/13 twist.that 307 might be approaching 1.7 inches

Jeff shoots a 1:17.5 twist with that bullet and its crazy accurate at 1,000yds.
1:14 might be the ticket with long heavy bullets.

 

[MrTom]

So my worries are over then as far as bullet length/stability in a 1:16.

At my age I have no future plans for a build [think in terms of green bananas]. I hunt under 100 yards, but thanks for clearing that up for me. You too, Ga.Smokey.

I love my Patriot and shoot it only as smokeless using the three bullets I have mentioned here in sabots, but LBA showed a picture of a 200 grain Fury soft-point that's bonded, and I have been in touch with Fury regarding those. I would toss the coins to try those. a 200 grain .40 bullet I think is right down the middle of the road for the gun for deer the way I shoot it, so I'd like to try those if he can make them. They are not a bullet listed.

 

[Ga.Smokey]

Today's test was with a 225 grain furry light blue 57gn imr 4198 cci lrp.
Tested cold bore and 2 follow up shots cold gun cold shooter on demand performance at 50 yards.
Didn't clean from my first session so I have a fouled bore like in hunting season dirty breach plug etc.
Sit down and shoot.
Here are the results

Im going to look at tgr crown it's shaving plastic a bit.

 

[Sandro Ventania]

Jeff shoots a 1:17.5 twist with that bullet and its crazy accurate at 1,000yds.
1:14 might be the ticket with long heavy bullets.

Is there a twist limit for a muzzleloader? Could you use a 10:1 barrel in a muzzleloader rifle?

 

[ENCORE50A]

Is there a twist limit for a muzzleloader? Could you use a 10:1 barrel in a muzzleloader rifle?

I do not know of anyone shooting that fast a twist.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Is there a twist limit for a muzzleloader? Could you use a 10:1 barrel in a muzzleloader rifle?

The only limits are your budget and your imagination.

 

[Ga.Smokey]

Is there a twist limit for a muzzleloader? Could you use a 10:1 barrel in a muzzleloader rifle?

Sandro
In my opinion in 45 caliber 16 twist is the fastest twist that makes sense for what we're doing.the limiting factor being sabot use.
Best accuracy is generally obtained when the bullets are not over rotated. I believe there comes a point that over rotation can rip bullets apart from centrifugal forces.
We're running soft jackets and lead cored bullets necessary for our application.
Also any imbalance in the bullet itself leads to gyroscope instability that is exasperated the faster the spin. Not even considering the added spin drift in long range shooting.
My opinion comes after taking indepth with my barrel maker who i have a long term relationship with going back 15 years of building competition rifles and pistols.
The most accurate builds I've seen have matched the twist to the target bullet weight and length. Length being the determining factor for twist
So for me 16 is the fastest I'm looking at right now with the availible bullets on the market.
Is it the optimum twist not sure yet shows promise lots of tests left to do.
There is much evidence to point to 18 twist being very good for all scenarios plastic and bore riders.
If I found "the bullet " I'd optimize the twist for that specific bullet profile.
Popular practice is to find a bullet your rifle likes. I like to target a bullet for my purpose and optimize the build around that goal.
I'm a little different in my approach but it has worked for me over the years
Looking at centerfire 458 rifles most top out at 14 twist for upto 500 grain bullets.
Don't think we need 10 twist. The historical evidence in internal balistics don't really support that much spin.
Bare in mind manufacturers pic there twist based rate on the heaviest longest bullet exspected or availibale in that caliber.
Although mid range bullets are often used.
That would do better with slower twists.

An example in bench rest 30 calibers often use short110 to 130 grain bullets at 2700 using 16 to 17 twist rate. These are highly optimized builds targeting a specific bullet from there outset.
John

 

[Hausser1]

The only limits are your budget and your imagination.

and the wifer

 

[Sandro Ventania]

Sandro
In my opinion in 45 caliber 16 twist is the fastest twist that makes sense for what we're doing.the limiting factor being sabot use.
Best accuracy is generally obtained when the bullets are not over rotated. I believe there comes a point that over rotation can rip bullets apart from centrifugal forces.
We're running soft jackets and lead cored bullets necessary for our application.
Also any imbalance in the bullet itself leads to gyroscope instability that is exasperated the faster the spin. Not even considering the added spin drift in long range shooting.
My opinion comes after taking indepth with my barrel maker who i have a long term relationship with going back 15 years of building competition rifles and pistols.
The most accurate builds I've seen have matched the twist to the target bullet weight and length. Length being the determining factor for twist
So for me 16 is the fastest I'm looking at right now with the availible bullets on the market.
Is it the optimum twist not sure yet shows promise lots of tests left to do.
There is much evidence to point to 18 twist being very good for all scenarios plastic and bore riders.
If I found "the bullet " I'd optimize the twist for that specific bullet profile.
Popular practice is to find a bullet your rifle likes. I like to target a bullet for my purpose and optimize the build around that goal.
I'm a little different in my approach but it has worked for me over the years
Looking at centerfire 458 rifles most top out at 14 twist for upto 500 grain bullets.
Don't think we need 10 twist. The historical evidence in internal balistics don't really support that much spin.
Bare in mind manufacturers pic there twist based rate on the heaviest longest bullet exspected or availibale in that caliber.
Although mid range bullets are often used.
That would do better with slower twists.

An example in bench rest 30 calibers often use short110 to 130 grain bullets at 2700 using 16 to 17 twist rate. These are highly optimized builds targeting a specific bullet from there outset.
John

thank you friend! I didn't expect an answer as complete as yours! I asked the question in a general way, but I have a particular question. I have a 1:12 barrel, .358 caliber and I haven't yet discovered if it's possible to make a muzzleloader with it, as I don't know if the projectile holds such a strong twist. That's why I'm trying to find out if there is a practical limit.

 

[Ga.Smokey]

thank you friend! I didn't expect an answer as complete as yours! I asked the question in a general way, but I have a particular question. I have a 1:12 barrel, .358 caliber and I haven't yet discovered if it's possible to make a muzzleloader with it, as I don't know if the projectile holds such a strong twist. That's why I'm trying to find out if there is a practical limit.

A couple questions.
Who's barrel? Brand
Cut riffle or button?
What projectile are you thinking?
Sabot or bullet to bore?

 

[derfhunter]

thank you friend! I didn't expect an answer as complete as yours! I asked the question in a general way, but I have a particular question. I have a 1:12 barrel, .358 caliber and I haven't yet discovered if it's possible to make a muzzleloader with it, as I don't know if the projectile holds such a strong twist. That's why I'm trying to find out if there is a practical limit.

There are a couple people who have converted 35 whelen caliber cva apex's into smokeless muzzleloaders. I dont know what their twist rate is.