350 gr Hornady FPB's & Wolverine

[cayuga]

3-1-09 2:30 pm weather sunny, clear, 12?s, windy, COLD.
Rifle: Knight Wolverine LK-II with 2.5x20mm Simmons scope
Distance: 30 yards bench rest & 63 yards can plinking
Ignition: RWS 1075+ caps
Powder: American Pioneer 2f & Triple Seven 2f
Projectiles: 250 grain Hornady .452 XTP in Harvester Crushed Rib sabots
100 grains of American Pioneer Powder 2f
350 gr Hornady FPB conicals w/80 gr Triple Seven 2f
250 gr Saber Tooth Conicals w/80 gr Triple Seven 2f

It looked nice out, but looks can deceive. Once out on the bench the wind let me know it was going to be another miserable day. I only hoped the shooting would not be.

I started with 100 grains of American Pioneer Powder 2f and some 250 grain Hornady XTP's. I used the Harvester Crushed Rib sabots. I also did not swab between shots. (this should answer the question I hope of the person that PM'd me reference this load and rifle.. I think with a different powder it can do better) I was kind of excited when the first two touched inside the bulls eye. Then the next two had a mind of their own and flew fowl. It could have been because I was not swabbing.

I then used a spit patch and swabbed the bore of the rifle. I set the spit patch down and would discover that before I could use it a second time, it was frozen stiff already from the cold. Kind of like my ears and moustache was. I wanted to try some of the Hornady FPB's 350 grain in this little Wolverine. I knew it could not take a large powder charge, so I dropped down to 80 grains and loaded Triple Seven 2f.

It surprised me that the 350 grain Hornady FPB hit exactly where the 250 grain XTPs hit. I swabbed and shot a total of four FPB's into that big hole. Needless to say, I was impressed. That will be this rifle's hunting load from now on. Loading these FPB's is a bit of a challenge. Especially with gloves on. I had to center the FPB on the muzzle, use the short handle of the T starter. Then a quick smack, to stomp all but the tip of the conical under the muzzle, and then the long part to get the projectile into the barrel. After that, they slide down real nice.. and shot even better.

I then swabbed real good and shot the three Saber Tooth 250 grain conicals. I was to cold to spit any more so I shot those three without swabbing. I was using 80 grains of Triple Seven 2f and really did not notice a crud ring to speak of. Also the Saber Tooth were a definite slip fit conical. I could push them under the muzzle with my thumb, no short starter needed, and then seat them with the weight of the ramrod almost. Why the third one took a dive, I have no idea. I had a great sight picture and trigger control. Maybe I should have swabbed.

I then swabbed the barrel with a patch and some Rusty Duck Black Off. And a dry patch. I had taken the target down and had went inside to warm up a little and decide how bad I wanted to shoot. I drank a soda, and decided I wanted to shoot again.

The soda can was placed at 63 yards. Using 80 grains of Triple Seven and a Hornady FPB. I got a great sight picture and fired. The can disappeared. I swabbed and took a walk to check. The first shot clipped the very left side of it. I had noted at 30 yards, that they hit a little to the left. After I re-set the can, I reloaded with the same load. This time I aimed just on the outside of the right side of the can, and hit almost dead center. The third shot was the same. It was a dead can.

This rifle and these FPB's seem made for each other. When it gets warmer, I want to do a little more shooting. Maybe tomorrow..

 

[Grizz]

Nice shootin' there pardner. I still have 10 FPBs here. I will have to give them a go again now that I have the rifle zeroed in @ 100yds. They are a bugger to load aren't they. I had to do pretty much what you did. I make these big Elk horn handled bullet starters. The "Bull Hammer" I like to call them. They lay a pretty good smack on stubborn bullets. I am curious how they will shoot now that I have things working. I have to agree with you about this being your new huntin' load for that rifle. Sweet group!

 

[Busta]

Good shooting cayuga.

You guys know you can pre-rifle those bullets within the confines of a nice warm house.

The sharp crowned Knights are hard to load the FPB's into. All you have to do is make sure you have your rifle unloaded with the breech plug out...then put the FPB in the muzzle or breech NOSE first...this keeps the bullet centered since the bullet in front of the flare is under-bore...push it in with your short starter in the hollow base...this swadges the rifling into the flared base...then just push it back out with your ramrod...bullet is now ready for easy loading at the range...just line up the rifling kerfs with the lands and they will load like butter. :wink: You can do your whole pack in a minute or two in your nice warm house, unless you like cold numb hands and dancing around your rifle in the cold. :lol:

I figured this out the FIRST time I shot FPB's in my Knight. THey load just fine in my H&R and NEF, they have a chamfered crown, for lack of a better term.

You will only want to pre-rifle for the same make of rifle. If you have a differnt brand, twist rate, number of lands and grooves, it isn't going to work.

 

[cayuga]

Busta... thanks for the tip. I find if I center that FPB and then smack it, they go in pretty good actually. I have seen a few hunting reports of the FPB and they look real promising.

 

[Cajun]

Nice shooting! My Omega likes the FPB's better then any other conical I tried. Maxi Balls are second. I shot an FPB into soaked phone books this past weekend and most of the jacket came off.

 

[Semisane]

I shot an FPB into soaked phone books this past weekend and most of the jacket came off.

Well that doesn't sound too good Cajun. Any idea what velocity you were shooting them at?

 

[cayuga]

Nice shooting! My Omega likes the FPB's better then any other conical I tried. Maxi Balls are second. I shot an FPB into soaked phone books this past weekend and most of the jacket came off.

Did the bullet flatten out? I can understand if the copper comes off, but does the bullet fragment?

 

[txhunter58]

The jacket seperating does not worry me. It is not like some rifle jackets that are tapered and help keep the bullet from coming apart. The FPB jacket is thin all over and if it comes apart shouldn't be any problem. It is the core lead alloy that I would worry about. How did that fare? It is not pure lead and should hold up better than pure lead.

Mine did well traveling through 3 bones in an elk, so I would expect that the phone books didn't fragment the lead?

 

[Lee 9]

I put one diagonally through a 140 pound boar with 100gr of BH209 going approx 1800 when it hit, it mushroomed nicely and put the hog down on the spot. It hit just in front of the back leg broke the opposite front shoulder and was stuck in the skin. While they are not the best or most favored bullet compared to the better sabot-ed bullets they do quite well on game and shoot accurately out to 150 yds which I consider good for a conical. Lee

 

[cayuga]

Lee & txhunter that is some good news. When he said it lost its jacket I figured we had powerbelt fragmentation issues with this one again.

 

[Busta]

This is what they looked like after going through my torture test at 50 yards with 80 gr Blackhorn 209.

There are worse bullets out there.

348 gr PowerBelt.

385 gr Hornady Great Plains.

And there are better ones.

430 gr White Super Slug.

 

[frontier gander]

I got the 245's holding together with a 100gr RS charge into my sand box. The most weight loss i have been getting is 6 grains Max. Ive been playing with a big chunk of aluminum and a drill and then harned alloy. :twisted:

 

[Cajun]

I'll try to post a picture later tonight. I shot it at about 40 yards using 85 gr of BH209 and I have no idea what the velocity was. The lead stayed together but didn't expand anything close to Busta's pictures. Most of the jacket seperated off the lead. Considering the group I shot at 150 yards this weekend with just a peep sight, and how limited my choices are for a conical my gun shoots well, I'll be using them on my elk hunt fo ML season.

My bro shot a power belt (405) into the same phone book and it was just a flattened egg shaped chunk of lead in 2 pieces. The FPB is defintly a better bullet then the PB.

 

[cayuga]

WOW!! that is really some good photos. I can accept the FPB's and the White Conicals. I would have never guessed the great plains would have done that.

 

[Cajun]

Busta, what did you shoot those FPB's into for your test?

 

[Busta]

Busta, what did you shoot those FPB's into for your test?

It's not a very scientific test, as far as a Ballistic Gel might be. But it is a personal test that a bullet must pass before I'll hunt big game with it.

I shoot it into a large heavy plastic bag filled with white silica sand. It can be similar to shooting into a cinder block, or a big massive bone. I admit, it is hell on bullets, but it has to be IMO.

When we elk hunt, we call them in close, under 50 yards. When that bull comes in, he is usually so mad he can't stand himself, I want a bullet that will penetrate the shoulder if need be. If your bullet don't make it into the boiler room, you might just as well stay home.

The FPB is the ONLY bullet I have tested that has both a hollow point and hollow base currently made that I would consider hunting with. I have not yet tested the THOR bullet, but I would think it would perform exceptional based on the Barnes.

 

[txhunter58]

Unfortunately, with the Thor bullet, the only bullet that is legal in Colorado (due to length) is the 250 grain, and this is only with the plastic point removed or shaved off at the front of the copper. Just want more lead than 250 when I shoot at a bull.

 

[Cajun]

Busta, what did you shoot those FPB's into for your test?

It's not a very scientific test, as far as a Ballistic Gel might be. But it is a personal test that a bullet must pass before I'll hunt big game with it.

I shoot it into a large heavy plastic bag filled with white silica sand. It can be similar to shooting into a cinder block, or a big massive bone. I admit, it is hell on bullets, but it has to be IMO.

When we elk hunt, we call them in close, under 50 yards. When that bull comes in, he is usually so mad he can't stand himself, I want a bullet that will penetrate the shoulder if need be. If your bullet don't make it into the boiler room, you might just as well stay home.

The FPB is the ONLY bullet I have tested that has both a hollow point and hollow base currently made that I would consider hunting with. I have not yet tested the THOR bullet, but I would think it would perform exceptional based on the Barnes.

Good info! Thanks! I don't know how much difference it makes but I have been pulling the red tip completely out to make it CO. legal and to test that way.

 

[Cajun]

Here is my target at 150 yards from this past weekend using a FPB, 85 gr. BH209, STS Primer, and a peep sight. I surprised myself. This is rested shooting off a lead sled. I kept all images large so you can really see the bullet.





Here are 2 pictures of the FPB into 3 phone books. (same bullet) The copper had srpead out pretty good into the phone book. I think this shot in the boiler room would have got R done.


[URL=http://img15.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf0011c.jpg][img]http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/8748/dscf0011c.jpg

 

[cayuga]

nice shooting.. open sights at that distance is great shooting. And the expansion is real good. Better then I thought. That's some good shooting there.