.40 cal TC shockwave vs .40 cal Hornady FTX

[Dougs136Schwartz]

Who makes .40 TC Sockwaves ? I tried to do a search. I read on a forum that the TC Shockwave was the same bullet as a Hornady SST. That is not the case with the bullets i have . The .40 TC Shockwave is a longer and more sleek looking bullet than a .40 Hornady FTX. Unless my .40 Shockwaves are really old ?

 

[derfhunter]

I think the old sst's are a different bullet than the ftx's

 

[ShawnT]

Been a long time since I had any of the SST or Shockwaves. I seem to recall they originally were identical with hard plastic tips but as some point Hornady went with the Flex Tip and TC stayed with the hard tip. They were both made by Hornaday to the best of my recollection.

 

[Dougs136Schwartz]

mine are .40 TC Shockwaves and .40 cal SSTs . They are definitley different looking bullets . My .40 Shockwaves are longer than the .40 SSTs . Also the bases are a little different. Both bullets weigh 200 grains

My original post was wrong. I said .40 TC Shockwaves vs .40 Hornady FTX . Mine are actually SSTs.

I bet GM will know what the difference is . Im wondering if my bullets are really old . I bought these from a store that was going out of buisness

 

[sabotloader]

Who makes .40 TC Sockwaves ? I tried to do a search. I read on a forum that the TC Shockwave was the same bullet as a Hornady SST. That is not the case with the bullets i have . The .40 TC Shockwave is a longer and more sleek looking bullet than a .40 Hornady FTX. Unless my .40 Shockwaves are really old ?

It was my understanding years back that both bullets were built by Hornady.

If these are the two bullets you are talking about

 

[Lee 9]

The Shock Wave has the best BC. The 40/200grain Bloodline has the best terminal performance by far.

 

[Dougs136Schwartz]

Thank you Sabotloader . I suck at posting pictures . Im just surprised the Hornady Shockwave bullet is longer and the base flatter (if that makes sense) than the .40 SST . They both weigh 200 grains . I am more concerned if one will preform differently on deer .

I know this is gonna sound different than most . If i am haveing trouble sighting a gun in . I can almost always get the gun to shoot with moderate loads of whatever powder and .40 cal bullets with the 50/40 cal sabots but i can not push the bullets hard . Last weekend i had to use 195 grain Dead Center QT bullets in order to get a guys Encore to shoot. I took the guy hunting and he did shoot a doe . I was not real impressed with the Dead Center performance. I thought perhaps a Hornady bullet may do better ?

Does Leigh make a .40 bullet ?

 

[Dougs136Schwartz]

Thank you . I will do some reseach and try some .40 cal Liegh bullets .

 

[GM54-120]

Early Shockwaves used a harder tip material and they were more "pointy". Now days they all looked the same to me other than color. Even some older SSTs had a different tip. Hornady changed them to match the FTX's soft tip made for lever guns. Ive seen minor differences in SST/FTX bases but neither one has been as flat as say a.....40-200gr XTP.

Personally i would not expect the lighter 40cal DeadCenters to be that good of a bullet. Probably need to get into the 220gr range or a little more. The 240gr might shoot in a 50cal 1-28.

Yes, Lehigh does make several 40cals. Starting at 185gr Bloodlines and 185gr CF but the one that looks most appealing to me is the 195gr Control Fracture in copper. Its .950" long so its got a pretty good chance of working.

 

[Busta]

Hornady makes the Shockwaves for T/C.

I have a bunch of the old .45/.40 SST's with the hard polymer tip. I also had a bunch of the old .50/.40 Shockwaves. I don't have any of the new .45/.40 SST's or Shockwaves.

Here are the old .45/.40 SST's, and the. 50/.40 Shockwaves. The SST's measure .975" overall, while the Shockwaves measure .940 overall. The SST has about an additional .025"ish on the bearing surface and ogive, and an additional .010"ish on the pointed tip. The base radius is almost identical in my samples. Hornady SST has the sharp pointed red tip, T/C Shockwave has the hard rounded yellow tip.








The new Hornady SST's have the rounded soft flex tip.





This site will only let me post 3 pictures in a post, so continued in next post.

 

[GM54-120]

40cal Shockwave circa 2007 from Doohans Gel testing thread.

45cal 250gr from the same thread and year

Bonded Shockwaves from 2006. 1st and 4th bullets from the left.

 

[Busta]

T/C also have the .45/.40 Shockwaves, and packaging varies with those as well. Those green Super .45 sabots suck. I hope they aren't 10 year old leftovers from the Super .45 days.





It appears that T/C is also offering a .50/.45 200 grain Shockwave. Conflicting information on that though, add it has the same Item# as the old .50/.40 200 grain Shockwave. T/C's new site is a mess at trying to figure anything out. I hope they didn't discontinue the. 50/.40 Shockwave, it was my favorite in the. 50 cal sabots. See these links below for the confusion.

https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/ ... s-(15-pack)

https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/thompso ... llets#tab1


These ones even have a large boatail in this picture. They also appear to be .45cal 250 grain bullets as well. Zoom in.

https://www.sportsmansguide.com/product ... ?a=1593991


T/C's site has 4 different classes of saboted Shockwaves, and I can't be certain If the .50 caliber sabots have .40 or .45 caliber 200 grain bullets in them. What a mess.

https://accessories.tcarms.com/shop/sab ... ve-sabots/

https://accessories.tcarms.com/product/ ... ss-sabots/

 

[Busta]

All of the original SST and Shockwave bullets used to have the sharper pointed tips.

Just look at my pic in the top left of the .45cal 250 grain Shockwaves and 300 grain SST's, then look at Chucks pic in the bottom right of the .45 cal 250 grain SST's with the Flex Tip. They started using the .45 Cal 250 grain FTX back in 2008ish. The .45 cal 300 grain SST Flex Tip came later, and the .40 cal Flex Tip came much later.




Forgot to add this link earlier.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=9798

If you scroll down to my March 2009 posts, the 200 Shockwave already had the more rounded hard yellow tip. That sabot looks kind of black, but it's dark blue. From 2008ish as well. Left Side




The .40 caliber SST still had the sharper hard plastic tip. Right Side.

 

[GM54-120]

T/C SKU: 17008238 are the 200gr 40cals in the MMP blue 50x40 sabots

 

[Busta]

T/C SKU: 17008238 are the 200gr 40cals in the MMP blue 50x40 sabots

Depends on where you look. Did you read the link from MidSouth? Read the T/C item#. Wasn't the only place I read it that way.

".50 Caliber Shockwave With .45 Caliber 200 Grain Spire Point Bullets (15 Pack)
Thompson Center # 17008238 | Item # 030-17008238
$11.35

1
Quantity
Status: In Stock
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DESCRIPTION
.50 Caliber Shockwave With .45 Caliber 200 Grain Spire Point Bullets (15 Pack)
by T/C ACCESSORIES

The Shock Wave™ is a new spire point bullet with polymer tip specifically designed as a muzzleloading sabot bullet, not a conventional pistol bullet converted to a muzzleloading projectile. T/C’s Shock Wave incorporates modern technology previously only applied to centerfire rifle bullets. The Shock Wave™ is as advanced as today’s muzzleloaders and their propellants. The polymer tip of the Shock Wave™ bullet does double duty; it increases the Ballistic Coefficient for sustained high velocity down range, and it punches into the pocket to open up the nose cone for fast expansion. The result; 3" less drop at 200 yards, and devastating energy at velocities between 1,000 ft/sec & 2,200 ft/sec. The Shock Wave™ has a harder lead core with walls interlocked with the jacket for maximum weight retention and expansion. Pick the bullet that will come up to the standards of your muzzleloader. Reach for a box of T/C’s Shock Wave™ Sabots."


https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/ ... s-(15-pack)

 

[GM54-120]

Notice the powder cup of the sabot and muzzle-loaders.com list the BC as .265 which is the same as the claimed BC as the 40cal 200gr SST.
This is obviously not a HPH12 or HPH24 sabot dyed blue. So it must be a MMP 50x40. Them sabot petals look really thick to be anything else.

Powder cups of HPH12 and HPH24 (Barnes blue version)

 

[Dougs136Schwartz]

WOW you guys are amazing when it comes to information .

Busta my Shockwaves have the green sabots . my bullets have pointed yellow tips . The overall length of the Shockwave is a little longer than the SST

My SSTs have red tips with tan sabots .

I normally use Harvester 50/40 cal sabots .

I realize most do not like to shoot .40 bullets out of a .50 cal gun. I completley agree. But... If im having trouble getting a .50 to shoot with moderate loads i can almost always get the gun to shoot with .40 cal 200 grainish bullets. I have no idea why . I dont push the bullets real hard. Im also not talking about target accuracy im talking about hunting accuracy with 1.5x5 or 2x7 scopes . 1 to 2 inch groups at 100 yards . Im sure i could shrink them more but i never have time while trying to sight someone elses gun in before a hunt. I have learned from past experience. I will not take someones word that their gun is sighted in. I make them show me how good their gun shoots before i take them hunting. Which that usually ends up me sighting the gun in. Or letting them use one of my guns.

sorry i kind of got off topic. So it sounds like other than appearance the Shockwaves and SSTs are the same bullet. They should both preform the same ?

 

[Dougs136Schwartz]

Just for information the Precision Rifle QT bullets did kill the doe . It was a short shot. 30 yards or so . A complete pass through but very little blood with not much expansion. The deer ran about 100 yards. The blood trail was poor but the shot was a little high and back . I really should not complain about the preformance of the bullet . The guy i took hunting was very excited 2nd deer he has shot.

 

[Busta]

Notice the powder cup of the sabot and muzzle-loaders.com list the BC as .265 which is the same as the claimed BC as the 40cal 200gr SST.
This is obviously not a HPH12 or HPH24 sabot dyed blue. So it must be a MMP 50x40. Them sabot petals look really thick to be anything else.

Powder cups of HPH12 and HPH24 (Barnes blue version)

I can see what's in the picture, I've shot hundreds of them since 2003-2004. The problem is, that picture isn't attached to any website that's selling them, that I could find. Did you read the description at Mid-South and see the item#?

Go to T/C's website and tell me what caliber the .50 cal 200 grain bullet is in their Mag Express Sabots are. Show me a picture of a blue saboted bullet anywhere on that site.

https://accessories.tcarms.com/product/ ... ss-sabots/

Like I said, it's a mess, especially when you read what MidSouth has posted on their site. You're hard pressed to find any description or picture of the .50/.40 Shockwave in a blue sabot anywhere that is selling them.

".50 Caliber Shockwave With .45 Caliber 200 Grain Spire Point Bullets (15 Pack)
Thompson Center # 17008238 | Item # 030-17008238"

This is what happens when marketers and website people have absolutely no clue what they are entering. T/C sure didn't help them out either.


Muzzle-Loaders pic keeps defaulting back to the black saboted .45 caliber 250 grain bullets. If you scroll down and click on 200 grain, the blue saboted bullets will flash for a second or two, then default back to the black. You won't even see it unless you scroll back up, and if you aren't quick, it's gone already. At least they list the BC's down below, so you can figure it out that way.

https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/bullets/ ... llets.html


The thing is, who's information do you trust? Who has old information, who has new information, who has wrong information, and who had the right information? Even T/C's information is incomplete, at best.

 

[GM54-120]

Dougs136Schwartz

I never had much luck with 50x40 and in my NULA its pretty much not even worth trying. It shoots a 225gr XPB so well there is simply no point in messing with 50x40s. I am still somewhat fond of 45x40 just because its rather simple and normally does shoot pretty good. The 200gr SST did just fine for me in the past. At Cecils pricing i just cant bring myself to pay that much for a lead bullet although i think the 240gr DC and heavier probably has tons of potential in twists faster than 1-28. The 250gr QT was just so so in them.

Now with Fury selling 40s in 225gr and 250gr at less than a buck each i may need to revisit some sabot loads i liked in my Pacnor.