400 yards Muzzleloader shooting

[dlethcoe]

Same set up for when I shot the 365 yard test.
CVA ACCURA SS MR Rifle
VX-R4-12X40 MM CDS DIAL LEUPOLD SCOPE
110 gr of BH 209 powder
CCI primers 209M
Bullets were
Barnes 250 TE-Z's and the Hornady 452, 250 gr Monoflex
Sabots for both bullets were the Harvester black smooth sabots
Target is a 12 inch target
Dried up enough to be able to get in the pasture to do the 400 yard test, This was not easy, I didn't change a thing on the scope, first 2 shot were 24.5 inches low, turn the dial up to what might be 425 yards off of the dial. Hit left of target, shot again left of target. adjusted the scope and, shot 11 times total at the target and the only 2 that are not showing were the first 2 that were way low,
Could not believe how much movement (and I was using my lead sled), there was trying to take aim and hold it on the target and still place the shot at 400 yards, My hat is off to the guy's that shoot that far and do a great job of it.
SET UP  

LONG WAYS DOWN TO THE TARGET

Now the target, I know that it is not all in one small area that a pop can would cover, but it is 400 yards with a muzzleloader, and a first timer at doing it.

Mark a friend of mine that was running the spotting scope, When we were letting the barrel cool between shots, we were talking and I was showing him how the CDS DIAL worked on my Leupold and he asked me why I had the setting on my scope set at 9, I looked and said sh__ turned it up to 12 and WOW what a difference that made.
Carlos asked me to help him out and do this test with my muzzleloader at 400 yards, to show that you do not need to spend some BIG BUCKS on a gun to be able to shoot that far.
As I said before the scope is what made the difference and made it fun to do, after I turned it up to the correct setting,
This was just a test that I wanted to see if I could do it and also to see if I could hit the side of the barn or not at that distance, :cheers: I DID.
As far as how much drop in the bullet and how much energy at the target that the bullet would have at that range, some one else will need to fill that in ( CARLOS ) I'm just here to have fun.


I think I will stay at target shooting at 300 yards or less.



Dave

 

[Egts1]

400 is a good poke, especially with a muzzleloader. Nice shooting. I'm sure you still have enough steam left to dirt nap a deer, especially with the accuracy you're getting. About 25 years ago I dropped a doe at 355 yards with a 20 gauge slug. Yes.....I know it was an irresponsible shot, but was young & still learning to to hunt. But none the less she was stone dead when that chunk of lead hit her.


Have you thought about shooting some 290 or 300 grain bullets at 400? I'm guessing that they may group a little tighter, with slightly less drop & pack more punch.

Again, nice shooting & thanks for sharing.

Chad

 

[Underclocked]

Thank you for taking the time Dave, very interesting report. The more shooting done past 100 yards helps us all. Most people think a 200 yard shot is out of range for a muzzleloader. I'm not saying everyone can do 300+ yards but better practice makes better shooters. I used the double distance system with my bow, when you fix your flaws at 40 yards 20 yards is easy. 

Looks like I need to pick up some .452 monos for next year.

 

[dlethcoe]

Egts,
This was just a test with a couple of bullets that I know how they work, I have used these in water jug testing at 100 and 200 yards, and like them. Now if I could shoot 400 yards more, then I would be doing more testing with different bullets and weights otherwise I will be shooting it sabotless with the Hornady 500/300 ftx or the Barnes 500/275 bullets or something like that. With the tight barrel on the MR you just need to knurl the bullet up a little bit and a wad you are ready to go. that is what The MR will be shooting come deer hunting this year.
Carlos will be doing some 400 yard test comming up before long with his Accura nritite.


Dave

 

[Spitfire1]

IMO the only thing that keep muzzleloaders from long range shooting is the crude sights on traditional guns and how consistently we can load from shot to shot whether we use a traditional or in-line rifle.

 

[patocazador]

Shooting at long range has definite advantages for a hunter's confidence. As with a bow, shooting targets at yardage that you would never hunt at, makes it easy to make the normal shots.
When I was able to bowhunt with a conventional bow, I would shoot 3D targets at ranges up to 70 yards. It made it easy to nail a 45 yard shot.

After shooting at 300+ yards, a 125 yard shot becomes a "gimme".

Good going there, Dave. :Red tup:

 

[Spitfire1]

You're right Bob , with a good CF mounted with a good scope shooting out to 500 yards is the same as shooting to 200 yards with a muzzleloader.

 

[cvilorio1]

Dave again you have done some great shooting and finger trigger pulling, I vow to you :bow:  O don't think I could do it any better. I will put my two cents in as far as speed and knock down power at that range.
This is calculated using the Barnes TEZ 250.gr. which has a BC of .195:
FPS AT 400 YRDS IS 984 FPS
FOOT POUNDS OF ENERGY STILL LEFT IS 537 FPE
AND THE DROP IS -103", AND THIS IS WHERE THE SCOPES COMES IN.
There is still enough speed and energy there to knock one down.
Great shooting buddy.
Carlos

 

[dlethcoe]

Thank you guys, When I did the 365 yard target, I did not adjust the scope after I finished. and Carlos said that at 365 yds the drop was -80 in. then when we set up for the 400 yard target, I wanted to shoot 2 times to see how much of a drop between the 365 and 400 there was, and it was 24.5 for both shots. I would say that is 1.5 inches difference, good enough for me. Thanks Carlos

Dave

 

[hawgslayer1]

Dave,
I told you Carlos is starting to worry.  :lol: :lol: :lol: Great shooting buddy. 

Ray.......... :thumbs up:

 

[dlethcoe]

Ray, 
I need to improve on my shooting at long distances, So when Carlos is in Iowa deer hunting, I can stick him in a pop up blind in the timber, and I can set on the edge of the field and wait for the big ones to come out.

Dave

 

[Underclocked]

Here is where the heavier bullets come in. The 300 PT Gold at 2000 fps is good for 1154 fps and 887 ft pounds KE and 80" of drop at 400. This was using a scope height of 1.75". The biggest issue is the time it takes to get there. The above load is .8 seconds.  I'm not advocating relying on these shots but under the right conditions and with proper practice it is an option. FWIW I am not capable to making the 400 yard shot but do feel comfortable with 250.

 

[dlethcoe]

biddler2, 
This was just a test to see IF I could do it with the muzzleloader that I have, even if I had the right conditions, I would not take a shot at an animal at that distance, I have taken a deer and coyotes out to 300 yards, but it was for a reason only. 200 yds is the max for where we hunt, as you said and I feel the same, 250 yards would be it.


Dave

 

[Underclocked]

Dave I understand its a test, the last two weekends you've done some great shooting. The better you get at 300-400 will help you at 100 which is more typical of deer hunting ranges. 
It would be awesome to spend time with Carlos and get some great long range shooting expertise. I have learned a lot from you, and others from his forum. Keep up the good work.

 

[dlethcoe]

biddler2, 
thank you, If I had an area that I could shoot 400 yards on a regular bases, then I would try different bullets out, but this was just for fun and to show that it could be done with a short muzzleloader, that is why I try to share what I have learned. It would be great to spend a couple of day's with Carlos and we all would learn alot on long range shooting, (of course, he would need to lose his cell phone during that time), As Carlos has said, you need to practise and thats what I try to do, Besides shooting at something other than paper targets, keeps the fun in it, at lease for me. I have also learned a lot from this forum and still will be learning alot, and I try to help if I can.

Dave

 

[Underclocked]

I keep forgetting you have the short barrel MR compared to the long tube on my Traditions LDR. It goes to show you don't give up anything in accuracy just a little velocity. Hopefully I will be able to join the CDS club for next year.

 

[dlethcoe]

You will be happy with the cds dial system, now that I am done with the Barnes 250 test, I just turn it back to 1 and switch the dials around for the Barnes 500/275, make a couple of adjustment, and it should be ready to go back to shooting my sabotless loads.


Dave

 

[Marty1]

biddler2, 
thank you, If I had an area that I could shoot 400 yards on a regular bases, then I would try different bullets out, but this was just for fun and to show that it could be done with a short muzzleloader, that is why I try to share what I have learned. It would be great to spend a couple of day's with Carlos and we all would learn alot on long range shooting, (of course, he would need to lose his cell phone during that time), As Carlos has said, you need to practise and thats what I try to do, Besides shooting at something other than paper targets, keeps the fun in it, at lease for me. I have also learned a lot from this forum and still will be learning alot, and I try to help if I can.

Dave

Short range hunting for the most part here in the Northeast. Not having shot myself beyond 100 yards with a muzzleloader, did you compensate for any wind when shooting at 400 yds :?:

 

[dlethcoe]

Marty,
After I adjusted the scope for height for 400 yards, the first 3 shots were to the left, when holding on center of target. Started to aim to the right of target, what I thought was around 6 to 8 inches, and it was hitting the left side of the target.


Dave

 

[Marty1]

Only 6 to 8 inches of drift is pretty amazing for a MLer at that distance. Great range report!