Another MAD Shockwave shooter

[ENCORE50A]

I shot all my deer with hornady bullets never had a bad one. But I'm interested in the barnes expander mz do they work good on deer ?

 

[ShawnT]

Send them all to me. I will just keep dropping deer with them.

Hey Critter,

What powder/charge do you use with them?

 

[Lee 9]

Pellets draw moisture and the box they come in is no protection I would be interested in seeing a 10 shot chronograph test with pellets. I have used these bullets in 200 grain 40 caliber and 250 grain bonded for many years over many deer what worries me is I need to buy a new supply and I usually get 500 at a time if they are going down hill that could be bad. I am using them at a velocity of just over 2200 FPS and they have consistently work quite well. :huh?:

 

[ShawnT]

Pellets draw moisture and the box they come in is no protection I would be interested in seeing a 10 shot chronograph test with pellets. I have used these bullets in 200 grain 40 caliber and 250 grain bonded for many years over many deer what worries me is I need to buy a new supply and I usually get 500 at a time if they are going down hill that could be bad. I am using them at a velocity of just over 2200 FPS and they have consistently work quite well. :huh?:

Lee are you shooting Pellets? I would have not believed that 2 pellets would get you to 2200fps.

 

[WV Hunter]

I still don't see how that bullet did not pass through. :huh?:

IMO, in order to be able to find that bullet in the deer, it would have to either hit relatively heavy bone and be stopped (and should have been noticeably deformed somewhat) or it was going so slow that it didn't have enough uumph to expand. That's the only two possibles that I can see. Even if the bullet was a total failure on the expansion part, it should have penciled right through with 100gr T7. The fact that it did neither, leads me to believe that the powder (pellets) may be bad like Lee suggested. That's about all that makes any sense...to me anyhow. ?????????

 

[HawgHunter]

Looks like a poof shot. All the powder did not ignite. If it didn't have the energy to go through the deer it's the powders fault or the operator for only loading in one pellet. It's never operator error but always the bullets fault.

 

[JStanley]

I wonder if the slow speed theory accounts for whatever that is stuck in the seam near the tip - is that hair?

 

[03mossy]

Shawn I think you may be right about them needing to be pushed faster. There is a lot of guys shooting them in there smokeless .45's and having good luck.

The first deer I killed with the muzzleloader years ago was with a 250 Shockwave pushed by 2 pyro pellets. About 75 yards and she acted like she was never hit just trotted off. I search around and no blood what so ever. Just so happens the next day my FIL was wondering the woods and found her about 100 yards from where I shot her. Pencil size entrance and exit. It was below zero so I was still able to salvage the meat but that experience lead me on a search for not only a better bullet but how to be a muzzleloader hunter, which lead me here. So I guess it was a hidden blessing lol

 

[ShawnT]

I still don't see how that bullet did not pass through. :huh?:

IMO, in order to be able to find that bullet in the deer, it would have to either hit relatively heavy bone and be stopped (and should have been noticeably deformed somewhat) or it was going so slow that it didn't have enough uumph to expand. That's the only two possibles that I can see. Even if the bullet was a total failure on the expansion part, it should have penciled right through with 100gr T7. The fact that it did neither, leads me to believe that the powder (pellets) may be bad like Lee suggested. That's about all that makes any sense...to me anyhow. ?????????

While the powder/pellets could be bad with some, I know in my case that after my problems, I switched back to my old friend the Knight 310 lead and the next deer hit the dirt like it always did with great entrance and exit and was using the same box of pellets.

I have never tried chronographing an ML but I would love to try it if I had the pellets. I just could not recover them, at least with any regularity. My club would not allow a wet sand box trap on the range. but maybe next summer when home on the farm in Ohio I just might have to build one.

 

[ShawnT]

Shawn I think you may be right about them needing to be pushed faster. There is a lot of guys shooting them in there smokeless .45's and having good luck.

The first deer I killed with the muzzleloader years ago was with a 250 Shockwave pushed by 2 pyro pellets. About 75 yards and she acted like she was never hit just trotted off. I search around and no blood what so ever. Just so happens the next day my FIL was wondering the woods and found her about 100 yards from where I shot her. Pencil size entrance and exit. It was below zero so I was still able to salvage the meat but that experience lead me on a search for not only a better bullet but how to be a muzzleloader hunter, which lead me here. So I guess it was a hidden blessing lol

I was really down on the bullet after my experience, and was disappointed because it was extremely accurate. But you just read so many good reports that there has to be a reason for it. I did not take notes but it just seemed that the shooters with the problem was only shooting 2 pellets of one type or another. I read a long time ago here that some believed that 2 pellets was the equivalent of about 80 or 85 grains of loose powder, true or not I think that they do shoot slower. That is why I think they were just traveling too slow for reliable expansion. If shots are under 200 yards I never really thought you had to have a pointy bullet and really prefer the larger meplat of bullets like the Deep Curl, XTP, or Barnes Expander, but again that is just my preference. I have suspected though that if the speed was pumped up then the Shockwave/SST would perform better.

I know Busta uses a lot of them and if I recall he shoots the smaller 200 grainer in his CVA pistol with about 80 grains of BH. I don't remember if he posted a speed that load is shooting. I also wonder if that smaller bullet has a thinner jacket. I have no idea and don't have any bullets to cut down to see. I have thought about giving them another try in my KRB with a load of about 120 grains of BH, just for curiosity.

 

[Critter]

Send them all to me. I will just keep dropping deer with them.

Hey Critter,

What powder/charge do you use with them?

In my sons LK-93 it's 90 grs of FFg 777 with a 250 Shockwave. In my Extreme it's 100 grs of BH209 with a 200 Shockwave. In my buddies Extreme he shoots 120 grs of BH209 with a 250 Shockwave. All of them kill deer, most go no where, if they do we always have blood. We have only ever recovered one bullet. I tried to find the pic but was unable to.

 

[ENCORE50A]

.............I know Busta uses a lot of them and if I recall he shoots the smaller 200 grainer in his CVA pistol with about 80 grains of BH. I don't remember if he posted a speed that load is shooting. I also wonder if that smaller bullet has a thinner jacket. I have no idea and don't have any bullets to cut down to see. I have thought about giving them another try in my KRB with a load of about 120 grains of BH, just for curiosity.

It surprises me that Busta hasn't replied already. He has photos of all three Hornady bullets. I think he mentioned in another forum that he may use the photos and question Hornady.

The objects under the tip in the Shockwave is deer hair.

 

[anaconda44]

I always used xtp 240 grains or even the cheap hornady swaged lead bullets in a sabot in my Remington 700ml
and I used 110gr of 2f black powder . I have shot a lot of deer with those and never lost one. but shots were 75 yards or less ang the longest a deer ran was 35 yards.

I have a cva Electra and my wife just bought me a pro hunter for xmax. I bought the barnens tez 250's and I have some 250gr shockwaves
and some pt260 grainers to try in the prohunter. but now I am thinking I might just try the xtps in the new gun because I know they work

 

[Confederate rifleman]

Another vote for wonky pellets. That aside, this is why I shoot XTP's, non magnums. Superb accuracy and terminal performance reminds me of a cross between a blender and a flying ash tray... Even at low velocity ( 800 fps) you will get expansion from the non magnums.

 

[Omega218er]

I have taken deer with Shockwaves and took one about 70 yards away, all were complete pass through shots although the jacket did separate from the lead. I am new here but have been muzzleloading for a number of years and the issue reported does sound like the powder didn't push the bullet fast enough IMO...

 

[Busta]

.............I know Busta uses a lot of them and if I recall he shoots the smaller 200 grainer in his CVA pistol with about 80 grains of BH. I don't remember if he posted a speed that load is shooting. I also wonder if that smaller bullet has a thinner jacket. I have no idea and don't have any bullets to cut down to see. I have thought about giving them another try in my KRB with a load of about 120 grains of BH, just for curiosity.

It surprises me that Busta hasn't replied already. He has photos of all three Hornady bullets. I think he mentioned in another forum that he may use the photos and question Hornady.

The objects under the tip in the Shockwave is deer hair.

He responded in the MS forum, and still hasn't changed his mind on this one. Pellets were compromised, is my final answer.

Been busy truck shopping with my daughter. She wants a 2015 4x4, and wanted me to tag along, to keep the wolves (salesmen) in line. She may just end up ordering one as very few are on the lots.

I do not have permission to use all the pictures, some did not get back to me.

Without making excuses for the bullet, this is more likely a powder issue. Several others obviously agree.

I compromised my powder once when I first used Pyrodex 30+ years ago. I'm just thankful that I wasn't shooting at an animal when I discovered this. I happens!

 

[ENCORE50A]

Busta, what brand truck is your daughter interested in? GM?

 

[Lee 9]

Pellets draw moisture and the box they come in is no protection I would be interested in seeing a 10 shot chronograph test with pellets. I have used these bullets in 200 grain 40 caliber and 250 grain bonded for many years over many deer what worries me is I need to buy a new supply and I usually get 500 at a time if they are going down hill that could be bad. I am using them at a velocity of just over 2200 FPS and they have consistently work quite well. :huh?:

Lee are you shooting Pellets? I would have not believed that 2 pellets would get you to 2200fps.

Absolutely not. And most of the complaints about several bullets have been by pellet shooters. I personally believe that the problem is not with the bullets, we all know that the pellets do not seal moisture out if you keep them in the container they come in. I thought I would try some of them years ago and did a bunch of testing both the chronograph and the expansion test failed on some shots the velocity varied as much as 500+ feet per second. I live in a humid area and had problems with severe crud ring with 777 and I had to be very carful about keep it seal or it also gathered moisture. I have taken over 69 deer with Pyrodex and Blackhorn mostly with Shock Waves I tried a few other bullets they all worked well for me I also like the Lehigh bullets but do not believe they are necessary for whitetail. I wonder where the problem really is when people complain about bullets.

 

[ShawnT]

Pellets draw moisture and the box they come in is no protection I would be interested in seeing a 10 shot chronograph test with pellets. I have used these bullets in 200 grain 40 caliber and 250 grain bonded for many years over many deer what worries me is I need to buy a new supply and I usually get 500 at a time if they are going down hill that could be bad. I am using them at a velocity of just over 2200 FPS and they have consistently work quite well. :huh?:

Lee are you shooting Pellets? I would have not believed that 2 pellets would get you to 2200fps.

Absolutely not. And most of the complaints about several bullets have been by pellet shooters. I personally believe that the problem is not with the bullets, we all know that the pellets do not seal moisture out if you keep them in the container they come in. I thought I would try some of them years ago and did a bunch of testing both the chronograph and the expansion test failed on some shots the velocity varied as much as 500+ feet per second. I live in a humid area and had problems with severe crud ring with 777 and I had to be very carful about keep it seal or it also gathered moisture. I have taken over 69 deer with Pyrodex and Blackhorn mostly with Shock Waves I tried a few other bullets they all worked well for me I also like the Lehigh bullets but do not believe they are necessary for whitetail. I wonder where the problem really is when people complain about bullets.

I had a feeling you were shooting loose.

 

[ENCORE50A]

What is the MINIMUM velocity that a shockwave will expand? What does Hornady say the minimum velocity for expansion must be?