Another reason we need a

Discussion in 'Inline Muzzleloading' started by GM54-120, Jan 16, 2020.

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  1. Jan 16, 2020 #1

    GM54-120

    GM54-120

    GM54-120

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    Better 45x40 sabot.

    The ASG X series 402 275gr cruise missile :D
    [​IMG]

    Ive wondered for some time why not go to say.....a sabot made for shooting 40cal rifle bullets like the 405Win. BC is nothing to rave about but the bullets are available cheaper and made for around 2250fps speeds.

    This should be a decent bullet for beefy builds or rifles similar to a Paramount. Hornady 405Win 300gr $36/50 https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010471518?pid=138446
    [​IMG]
     
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  2. Jan 16, 2020 #2

    dwm

    dwm

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    I certainly hope someone gets the sabot good for the fast twist, looks like good bullet choices out there.
     
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  3. Jan 16, 2020 #3

    GM54-120

    GM54-120

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    Problem is some of these 40s really need a 1-20 or faster. 1-22 is marginal or not fast enough for some of them. Once it needs a 1-18 or faster its just hell on a sabot. Im not even sure if that 300gr for 405Win would work in a 45cal 1-20. 405Win are normally 1-14ish twist rifles and i dont know the OAL offhand to get an estimate.

    405Win and 41Mag though are probably close enough to use the same sabot if its not too long or too short. So you could use 41Mag bullets.
     
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  4. Jan 17, 2020 #4

    Sideshow

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    The 410 shotgun wad i used in my super 91 with 1 in 16 held up . I made a .388 dia ,330gr bullet for it and pushed it harder than i should have with 85 grW of blackhorn . It was accurate and flat !!! It can be done !!!
    GM54--120 you posted another pic the other day of a cup and core 300gr job in a harvester sabot . Whose bullet was it ???
    I wonder IF that shotgun.wad could also be used in a 45 !!! Taurus judge revolvers are 45/410 .
    Tbis topic deserves some real looking into about this issue IMO . I dont believe it is insurmountable . Just DONT .
     
  5. Jan 17, 2020 #5

    GM54-120

    GM54-120

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    I think that was a 310gr bullet that Dennis at Fury posted somewhere. It was really intended for 40cal sabotless. I think when i ran the #s, about 1.25" is gunna be as long as you can go with a 40cal in a 1-20.
     
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  6. Jan 17, 2020 #6

    GM54-120

    GM54-120

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    Finally found some info on the 405Win bullet. Hornady used to offer 2 but i dont see the other one anymore.

    So in theory if you had a sabot that could handle it.....That bullet would shoot in a 45cal 1-20. The BC would only be about .250 but you would also have a SD of around .250 which is great for tougher game.
     
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  7. Jan 17, 2020 #7

    Sideshow

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    Thank you for this info . ALL of it !!! Thread too !!! This is a Good One !!!
     
  8. Jan 17, 2020 #8

    Sideshow

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    Guys tbe idea of useing a 40 cal bullet vs a 45 has real world benefit .

    I will use my 410 cal White as an example . It shoots a 400 gr bullet at just over 1300 fps at the muzzle . A white 45 shoots a 460 gr bullet approx 200fps faster . At 200 yds the 410 has nearly the energy left as the 451 does ., i mean its close . But the velocity loss is only about half !!! Ballistically this is a big deal !!!! Does it on less powder too .

    If we can figure this sabot out the rewards will be huge !!! This one is well worth some effort to make it a viable alternative for some spectacular preformance !!!
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2020
  9. Jan 18, 2020 #9

    Busta

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    This one is the White Shooting Star / Power Star Sabot with 350 grain bullet. It was designed for boat-tailed bullets though, and not flat based. The petals do not go all the way down to the base, which gives it structural support to withstand the torque of rotational force, where lesser sabots fail.
    004.jpg 009 (1).jpg
    011.jpg


    Far left.
    016.jpg 018.jpg


    Accuracy is not a problem.
    006-8.jpg


    Hold up well to 1:20 twist with Blackhorn 209 powder, upper right. Lesser sabots fail, front and center.
    100_0369.jpg


    Just don't try shooting a flat based bullet in one. Unfortunately, I don't think MMP has the mold any longer, or can no longer produce them?

    I've only got a handful left.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2020
  10. Jan 18, 2020 #10

    GM54-120

    GM54-120

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    Funny thing though. Ive shot loads in my Pacnor 45 im pretty certain were making over 32kpsi. The Harvester light blues never failed with those loads. Ive shot loads in my NULA and Savage 50 im certain are pushing 35kpsi and those loads never failed.

    Im also certain you wont ever make anywhere near that kind pressure with a 240gr CEB and 120grV of BH209 yet they do fail. SML loads making slightly more peak are just useless. Many tried and all have failed. I still have a few of the MMP prototypes. IIRC those were made using the old White sabot mold with some changes. 120gr of BH209 and a 230gr Lehigh wasted the powder cup on those sabots. Shredded them badly.
     
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  11. Jan 18, 2020 #11

    Sideshow

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    Obviously GM54--120 you are connected in this industry . Doc also came up with a sabot that was fitted with a gas check . Have you ever seen/tested any of those ???
    Im fresh out of winchester 410 wads or id measure them again . Sorry . They are tough !!!
    They held up for me using 85grW of blackhorn in my 410 with 1 in 16 . Thats a Bit Stiffer load than in a 45 as you know . I just never considered a 45 at the time i was working with them . They were about a stiff push down in my 410 so maybe.......
    In the future my 700ml will be set up for a 45 or possibly even a 40 barrel , as primarily a BH gun / light smokeless loads 2nd . I have a Big Interest in a possible solution . These behaviours with the different types of powders are quite puzzleing . So is the copper vs lead core challenges . You know it seems that pressure isnt tbe only big factor at play . Thermal ?? It must be something not being considered . Something overlooked.....
    .
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2020 at 4:45 AM

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