Idaholewis said:
Muley Hunter said:
One of the problems I have with the Bloodline/Lehigh is the petals shooting off in all directions. I'm not sure how far they go? I use the gutless method to skin and quarter out game. I don't want the guts being penetrating by the petals which would force me to gut the animal. Plus, I don't want the petals penetrating the meat I want to eat.
I have no doubt they're a killer bullet. Maybe someone using them can address my concerns?
Pete, I am with you on this. My experience with bullets of these types are with Centerfire, but same concept. I have always preferred a good premium bonded type bullet for Deer and Elk, There is a lot of good meat on the Front Shoulders, why bloodshot and destroy it? I was taught from a little boy to shoot right behind the Foreleg through the Lungs. When i first moved to Idaho I shot a little 3 or 4 Point Whitetail buck perfectly broadside at just over 300 yards, My shot was low and through the heart, Bullet was a Hornady SST 162 Grain in my 7Mag, That bullet literally came undone? It even busted the Gut? And Bloodshot the whole front end of that deer. After skinning him and discovering what a HORRENDOUS mess that SST had made I threw the rest of that box of Loading bullets in the Garbage. I personally would never use a bullet that was designed to Fragment on ANY Game i intended to eat. Coyotes, Hit em with a Grenade! But not the Food i intend to eat
That is not the way the Lehigh concept works. I have been using them for several years and have not had a problem with them at all. Most think that they fragment sending bullet parts all over the animal.
The way the bullet is designed to work and the way it works more than 90% of the time is really neat. The HP nose of the bullet is divided into 6 parts, petals. The nose of the bullet will not open without contact with a liquid atmosphere, meaning as the bullet passes through the hide and/or even bone nothing really happens to the nose of the bullet. Remember also that the bullet is either a hardened solid brass or copper, so it is even really hard to deform the bullet or even the nose. Once the nose of the bullet contacts a liquid environment such as the internal organs of the chest cavity, the nose with liquid and enough pressure begins to open. The nose splits into 6 sections and starts bending away from the center as any normal HP would do. When the petals bend to approximately 40*, they break off and circulate upward and outward punching holes in the adjacent organs. The petals weigh approximately 6 grains each. With that weight they do not carry much energy and their ability tip penetrate is very severely hampered. The can puncture nearby organs, but muscle tissue is a big problem for then. They run out of energy very quickly. Even getting through the diaphragm would be difficult, unless shot through. After the petals leave the core of the bullet, the core of the bullet which is the bulk of the weight continues through the animal creating hydrostatic pressure and damage. Normally the core will exit the other side of the animal allowing blood-letting from the chest cavity. I will say that the chest cavity is a mess in most cases.
Personally I have preferred the higher shot on the chest cavity because most time a petal or two WILL penetrate upwards into the spinal column and rupture the spinal cord. Petals in meat may make it about 1/2". Most of the time the petals are contained in the liquid environment of the chest cavity - they just do not have enough energy to go very far. One other point the controlled fracturing of the nose occurs very early in the penetration of the liquid environment,
I have recently been doing some testing of this action. Knowing that the bullet will not operate without a liquid environment I have been shooting the bullet through regular bottles of drinking water. That is about 2 1/2" of water. The purpose of the test is to see at what velocity the bullet fails to operate. I use 10 grain powder increments from 70 grains down to 30 grains using Ron's standard 25 yard distance.
I built a little water testing taget station in the shop the other day. The purpose of the stand was to hole a bottle of water with a target behing the bottle to show the petal penetration. Also it was to designed to show the blast effect of the hydrostatic pressure of the bullet passing though the paper. And the target paper was a thicker quality poster board paper.
This is a view from the rear of the target stand.
You can see most of the target is open to the air so the blast effect of the water or the simulation of the fluid atmosphere of the animal might be simulated.
Things yoight keep in mind - shooting water is not totally indicative of shooting blood and organ tissue. As the old saying goes - "blood is thicker than water". As an example a pound of water weighs 8.34 lbs, a pound of blood weighs 8.85 lbs. now add in the additional weight of organ tissue and the weight and density of the chest fluids rises rapidly effecting how long it takes the Lehigh to react. It happens quickly in that fluid atmosphere.
This is a picture of the pre-meausured tubes of powder - reflecting volume not weight...
As an example this is a picture of 452x265 gr. Lehigh shot with 40 gr. V of powder
If you look closely at the target you can find the holes punched by the petals - but even more importantly with 40 grains V of powder look at the blast effect of the water on the target. You can read the velocity of the shot on the target.
This picture shows a test shot that failed to fracture - there is a real difference.
These pics try to show the damage occurred when shooting a walking/talking animal...
Anyway I do not know if this shows you enough to know that these bullets really work and they do have an extra bit of Terminal Ballistics.
Muley we have never (and I hate saying never cuz you no???) encountered a petal in the meat that has been sent to the butcher for processing... And!! I can not say that it never happens.
IdahoLewis - you need to come down and shoot some if these...
