Black MZ Review

[Spitfire1]

Yes and that might be the reason why it works better when you compress it.

 

[Marty1]

Ever try pounding it into a real powder?

:face: I don't think I'd want to manually reduce the stock size of the granules so that it would compress better...especially if you rely solely on VOLUME to measure your powder loads.

 

[Muley Hunter]

Just use 10gr less to start, and chrono it.

 

[Spitfire1]

You can always sift the finer granules out and try that to see if there will be any improvement in velocity .

 

[Marty1]

Just use 10gr less to start, and chrono it.

 :idea: OR ...perhaps you could first VOLUME measure ( say 100 grains right out of the canister ) , then WEIGH it. That way if you want to crush a batch of it, from that batch you can simply "weigh-out" whatever 100 grains/volume came out to from the canister to give you an equivalent charge.

Bottom-line, I guess I'm not one much for using bulky, black powder substitutes.  If the granules themselves are not consistent, to me it's more difficult to get consistent bullet seating.

 

[Muley Hunter]

I agree Marty. I'd never use this powder. Not when Swiss makes such a beautiful powder that works in all guns including flintlocks, with no special caps, primers, or breech plugs for the rest.

 

[Blacksheep]

Folks , just got back from the range used Black MZ 90 grs volume but weighed each charge to 77.1 grains which using frontiers chart for Shockey's Gold should be right on for 90.  Used it in my TC Omega with a PR Bullet 340 gr DEAD CENTER over top shot 4 3 shot groups at  110 yds biggest group off a hot barrel and my 1 screw up was about 3 inches.

I have to tell you I may upset a few folks but I think the clean-up was easier than with Blackhorn 209, now I was using the PR Bullet small rifle variflame which cuts fouling down a ton.  Overall I think if your willing to take the time and weigh your charges I have to say I like the powder.

 

[donjose1]

I like BH209 my guns like BH209 and they shot well with all the top powders as well as REAL BLACK and I am talking inline guns, but for me I am not sure that the price of BH and the clean up is any eaiser than the other powders..
I shot pinnacle powder that Falcon had given me on a trade that looked like clumped used cat litter and it shot good...I guess what I am saying is take the time to get the load,bullet,and loading practices down to the same way every time and you will see the clouds part...I shot up a can of JS Gold and it rocked , now talking sidelocks the same as above applies as well this isnt rocket science..

 

[Okie Hog]

DonJose is right.  None of this stuff is rocket science.  Just measure the charges the same every time, ram the ball the same every time, get the same position on the bags every time and you've got it made.  Me; i hate swabbing between shots so i just refuse to do it.  i also refuse to wait very long between shots.  Usually pick up the binos, take  look at the target after the shot.  Then the gun is de-capped and reloaded for the next shot.  

Some time ago i took the worst jug of Pinnacle on the place:   It was essentially one huge clump.  Broke up that powder and sifted out the fine stuff.   BTW:  The fines cause the clumping.  With the fines gone it became a world class powder so far as accuracy is concerned:   When my ballistician friend gets back from Saudi we will chronograph it.  

Last year i bought some blackpowder made for Grafs by Schuetzen.  i also tried Goex blackpowder.    This stuff is totally cruddy when compared to any of the substitutes.   Got some very good groups but the crud got the best of me.  

Yes, weighing an APP powder will often make it shoot much better. Weighing an APP powder with a lot of fines is not a total cure all: The APP powder fines are lighter than the non-fines.   The weight is right but the ratio of fines to non-fines may not be the same every time.   The fines burn much faster.  

DonJose:   GoJo is a fine patch lube for round ball.

 

[donjose1]

Yep Falcon, Gojo is a hidden treasure I was laughed at on another forum when I used it to swab with between shots, but the nice thing about it is the evaporation after use...

 

[patocazador]

Yep Falcon, Gojo is a hidden treasure I was laughed at on another forum when I used it to swab with between shots, but the nice thing about it is the evaporation after use...

For those ignorant people on here (me) please tell us what Go Jo is. :scratch:

 

[exMember]

A hand cleaner

 

[patocazador]

Not Goop?

 

[donjose1]

Use the one with out pumice
China Mart has gojo in the little tubs
Goop might work as well never tried that brand

 

[Muley Hunter]

China Mart.  

 

[cvilorio1]

Folks , just got back from the range used Black MZ 90 grs volume but weighed each charge to 77.1 grains which using frontiers chart for Shockey's Gold should be right on for 90.  Used it in my TC Omega with a PR Bullet 340 gr DEAD CENTER over top shot 4 3 shot groups at  110 yds biggest group off a hot barrel and my 1 screw up was about 3 inches.

I have to tell you I may upset a few folks but I think the clean-up was easier than with Blackhorn 209, now I was using the PR Bullet small rifle variflame which cuts fouling down a ton.  Overall I think if your willing to take the time and weigh your charges I have to say I like the powder.

No one is going to get upset about what you stated. We all shoot what we like, and that is what makes the world go round. I have tired all the powder subs out there, and at one time I almost gave up ML's from frustation, until I came across BH 209. Like some else stated this is not rocket science, all it is is using the right powder bullet combo, but Black MZ in my book is just like the rest of the other subs. Is not consistent from shot to shot whether you weight it or by volume, the ES spread is tremendous and you do have to clean the bore every 5 shot or so. Does it clean as easy as BH 209, I don't really know, I used it, tested it, and the clean up was just like BH 209 which the gun I shot today I clean with 6 patches. Maybe I'm wrong to say this, but a 3" group might be acceptable to some people, but to me is not. Knowing how the new ML,s shoot and how capable they are of shooting sub MOA groups at 100 yrs, I will not ship a gun out until it shoots a 1" or less at 100 yrds. There is really no comparison between Balck MZ and BH 209, the BH 209 is far superior to any other sub out there, and I don't mind paying the extra money for it. The groups you see below were shot today. A total of 21 shot fired, no cooling between shot, not clean the barrel every five shot, just load and shoot, the first was at 200 yrds, shot 18,19,20, and 21, and the second was the sight in at 100 yrds, one low shot adjusted and three thru the same hole. Try doing it with Black MZ, I did and could not get it to do it. I hope I did not offend any one it was not my intention, just stating the facts.
Carlos

one

 

[donjose1]

Didnt hurt my feelings at all..



Here is my thought...

Bench accuracy has very little correlation with practical accuracy..
Accuracy which the shooter cannot appreciate from a field position in IMOP is not giving a true example of the shooter or weapon. Also the field accuracy of a rifle almost always exceeds what the bench accuracy would indicate. Make me laugh when a guy gets his best performance on his best day shot from the bench into his head as a example of how his field accuracy will be. It just ain't so.

This is not a slam to anyone just because you cant shoot a 1inch group from the bench or your weapon cant doesnt mean you are in trouble in the field... Just Saying 
Now I was sucked in to the target shooting game and little groups as well, but i also know that all I need to be able to do is put a shot in a ten inch circle from a field position up to 200 yards and guess what  deer down..


Donjose

 

[cvilorio1]

Didnt hurt my feelings at all..



Here is my thought...

Bench accuracy has very little correlation with practical accuracy..
Accuracy which the shooter cannot appreciate from a field position in IMOP is not giving a true example of the shooter or weapon. Also the field accuracy of a rifle almost always exceeds what the bench accuracy would indicate. Make me laugh when a guy gets his best performance on his best day shot from the bench into his head as a example of how his field accuracy will be. It just ain't so.

This is not a slam to anyone just because you cant shoot a 1inch group from the bench or your weapon cant doesnt mean you are in trouble in the field... Just Saying 
Now I was sucked in to the target shooting game and little groups as well, but i also know that all I need to be able to do is put a shot in a ten inch circle from a field position up to 200 yards and guess what  deer down..


Donjose

You are right about bench shooting and field shooting, but the point here was the powders not the ability, and before you go out in the field, you have to sight in from a bench. Now that said, if you want to talk about field shooting and ability, you have the right guy right here, but before you say anything else, let me give a hint. Ft. Benning Ga., Sniper School Grad. 1985, plenty of filed shooting up to 1000 yrds. won't say any more on this subject.

 

[Okie Hog]

The best hunter i know is not a very good bench shooter.   Before deer season he comes to the range with his nice Knight muzzleloader.  He fires one shot at a 2" bull at 100 meters.  If that shot hits in or near the bull he goes home.  If sight adjustments are needed he fires a few more shots.   Then he leaves the range to appear one year later.  

That retired Colonel kills several deer, a few elk, a few exotics, a few antelope, javelinas, and a bunch of wild hogs every year.  He has his own butcher shop, walk-in cooler and walk-in freezer.   Being a superb hunter counts for something.  

On a good day i can shoot with just about anyone out there.  i'm old and do what works for me.   The target pictures i put on the web are fired without swabbing, unless noted otherwise:   i hate ritual and swabbing.   Folks on another site seldom respond to my target posts because they believe that my brand X powder is not capable of good accuracy.  

Since getting back into muzzleloaders in 1999, i've killed  40-50 deer and a few hundred wild hogs.  In that time i have lost one animal, unfortunately it was a big elk.

 

[Muley Hunter]

What's the situation that lost the elk. Gun, load, and distance etc?

Just curious. Not busting your chops.