Black MZ Review

[donjose1]

Didnt hurt my feelings at all..



Here is my thought...

Bench accuracy has very little correlation with practical accuracy..
Accuracy which the shooter cannot appreciate from a field position in IMOP is not giving a true example of the shooter or weapon. Also the field accuracy of a rifle almost always exceeds what the bench accuracy would indicate. Make me laugh when a guy gets his best performance on his best day shot from the bench into his head as a example of how his field accuracy will be. It just ain't so.

This is not a slam to anyone just because you cant shoot a 1inch group from the bench or your weapon cant doesnt mean you are in trouble in the field... Just Saying 
Now I was sucked in to the target shooting game and little groups as well, but i also know that all I need to be able to do is put a shot in a ten inch circle from a field position up to 200 yards and guess what  deer down..


Donjose

You are right about bench shooting and field shooting, but the point here was the powders not the ability, and before you go out in the field, you have to sight in from a bench. Now that said, if you want to talk about field shooting and ability, you have the right guy right here, but before you say anything else, let me give a hint. Ft. Benning Ga., Sniper School Grad. 1985, plenty of filed shooting up to 1000 yrds. won't say any more on this subject.

I have yet to find a powder that doesnt have the field accuracy in a inline to hit a 10inch plate at 200 yards....That is awesome you are a sniper so you have the training to help overcome field shooting issues..My point is not a slam at you as I stated above, I have no agenda other than to tell new shooters dont get caught up in the hype when learning the sport .Seems to me Jim Shockey has killed boat loads of game before BH209 ever came out and so has thousands of other hunters as well.. And thank you for your military service as well.
 I was in the Marine Corp and understand field shooting as well..Finally I also know that even getting a follow up shot in the field with a muzzleloader isnt going to be as easy as with a bolt or semi auto rifle.....

 

[cvilorio1]

Didnt hurt my feelings at all..



Here is my thought...

Bench accuracy has very little correlation with practical accuracy..
Accuracy which the shooter cannot appreciate from a field position in IMOP is not giving a true example of the shooter or weapon. Also the field accuracy of a rifle almost always exceeds what the bench accuracy would indicate. Make me laugh when a guy gets his best performance on his best day shot from the bench into his head as a example of how his field accuracy will be. It just ain't so.

This is not a slam to anyone just because you cant shoot a 1inch group from the bench or your weapon cant doesnt mean you are in trouble in the field... Just Saying 
Now I was sucked in to the target shooting game and little groups as well, but i also know that all I need to be able to do is put a shot in a ten inch circle from a field position up to 200 yards and guess what  deer down..


Donjose

You are right about bench shooting and field shooting, but the point here was the powders not the ability, and before you go out in the field, you have to sight in from a bench. Now that said, if you want to talk about field shooting and ability, you have the right guy right here, but before you say anything else, let me give a hint. Ft. Benning Ga., Sniper School Grad. 1985, plenty of filed shooting up to 1000 yrds. won't say any more on this subject.

I have yet to find a powder that doesnt have the field accuracy in a inline to hit a 10inch plate at 200 yards....That is awesome you are a sniper so you have the training to help overcome field shooting issues..My point is not a slam at you as I stated above, I have no agenda other than to tell new shooters dont get caught up in the hype when learning the sport .Seems to me Jim Shockey has killed boat loads of game before BH209 ever came out and so has thousands of other hunters as well.. And thank you for your military service as well.
 I was in the Marine Corp and understand field shooting as well..Finally I also know that even getting a follow up shot in the field with a muzzleloader isnt going to be as easy as with a bolt or semi auto rifle.....

No slam taken, and also thank you for your service. Yes, Jim Shockey did kill a boat full of game before he switch to Bh 209, but if you notice before he change to BH 209 he never took a a shot over 100 yrds or so now he takes 250 shot.

 

[donjose1]

I been wondering about that as well on his long shots but I was never able to get anyone of his people to answer me when I asked what powder he was using as of late.......

 

[exMember]

the huge velocity gap with the APP powders will give the shooter fits at 200 yards. I can certainly use it and get good hunting accuracy but consistency from one outing to the next, certainly is no where near as consistent as BH209.

 

[Okie Hog]

"What's the situation that lost the elk. Gun, load, and distance etc?"

Gun was the CVA Mag Hunter .50 caliber. Load was 150 grains of Pyrodex RS and the 300 grain TC PTX bullet. Distance was 75 yards. One lung was solidly hit, the other was nicked. The bullet did not expand and the blood trail stopped after about 200 yards. My friend and his tracking dog were in CO. We looked for that elk for many hours and never found it. Another hunter found the animal in the late afternoon and took it out.

Planned on hunting with the 300 grain .430 XTP bullet. Listened to the hype of an "expert" who recommended the PTX. Turns out the guy is a BS artist.

 

[Muley Hunter]

I seem to remember Jim Shockey used 150gr of that powder. At close range it was going to work no matter how different the velocities were.

 

[donjose1]

the huge velocity gap with the APP powders will give the shooter fits at 200 yards. I can certainly use it and get good hunting accuracy but consistency from one outing to the next, certainly is no where near as consistent as BH209.

I understand Jon and I like BH209 the problem I have is most all muzzleloader shooters I know are Red Necks they go to China Mart and by there rifles,powders,bullets,scopes and sometimes bases for there rifles..And some have 200 yard kills with Pyrodex..I have learned over the years that the more money I spent compared to them on better stuff didnt make since...

 

[Muley Hunter]

"What's the situation that lost the elk. Gun, load, and distance etc?"

Gun was the CVA Mag Hunter .50 caliber.  Load was 150 grains of Pyrodex RS and the 300 grain TC PTX bullet.  Distance was 75 yards.   One lung was solidly hit, the other was nicked.  The bullet did not expand and the blood trail stopped after about 200 yards.   My friend and his tracking dog were in CO.  We looked for that elk for many hours and never found it.  Another hunter found the animal in the late afternoon and took it out.  

Planned on hunting with the 300 grain .430 XTP bullet.  Listened to the hype of an "expert" who recommended the PTX.  Turns out the guy is a BS artist.  

That was bad luck. At least someone else got it down, and it didn't have to suffer.

 

[exMember]

I have read some complaints about that PTX bullet. Never seen the bullet personally so i'd have to look into that one.

 

[donjose1]

"What's the situation that lost the elk. Gun, load, and distance etc?"

Gun was the CVA Mag Hunter .50 caliber.  Load was 150 grains of Pyrodex RS and the 300 grain TC PTX bullet.  Distance was 75 yards.   One lung was solidly hit, the other was nicked.  The bullet did not expand and the blood trail stopped after about 200 yards.   My friend and his tracking dog were in CO.  We looked for that elk for many hours and never found it.  Another hunter found the animal in the late afternoon and took it out.  

Planned on hunting with the 300 grain .430 XTP bullet.  Listened to the hype of an "expert" who recommended the PTX.  Turns out the guy is a BS artist.  

I remember you telling me that story when I was at your house I am about to put a new scope on that CVA and get her ready again, that gun shoots Schuetzen Black Powder 3 Fg like a house on fire

 

[Okie Hog]

"I am about to put a new scope on that CVA and get her ready again, that gun shoots Schuetzen Black Powder 3 Fg like a house on fire"

i pillar bedded and glass bedded the action of that gun.  It's about the most accurate muzzleloader i've ever seen.   That gun made some some dyed in the wool Knight and Encore guys sick at the range.

 

[Muley Hunter]

No surprise there. If you're not the type to be bothered by the mess. Real black powder is very accurate and consistent.

 

[donjose1]

No surprise there. If you're not the type to be bothered by the mess. Real black powder is very accurate and consistent.

I been thinking about just going to Real Black in everything I own including the inlines and I dont mind cleaning the gun thats part of the fun.....

 

[Muley Hunter]

Nothing wrong with that, but I have a soft spot for BP.

 

[Cannonball1]

I have a friend who lives at the target range with a ML and he claims that day in and day out BP is more accurate, especially in temperature changes than any of the substitute powders.  He constantly shoots 1" groups.   Myself a 2"+ is great at 100 yards.  That's putting a log on the bench to put the gun over with open sights, looking through 71 year old eyes, but darn I'm just getting tired of cleaning the gun after every shot.

 

[exMember]

Have you ever tried moose milk? It works great as a patch lube if that's what you are using.

I to hate swabbing and once i found MM, that took care of it for good. May shoot my 58 later on today.

 

[Spitfire1]

I love black powder myself , we had a sub here at one stage but I think I only used about 3 lbs of it in 8 years and I go through 4 lbs of powder a month .

 

[Blacksheep]

Carlos,

I have good performance from the MZ if its weighed.  3 of my 3 shot groups were right about 1 inch and 2 of the shots in the last group were about 1.5 inches I yanked one shot in that group and knew I'd done it when it went plus the mirage of that toasty barrel didn't help either.

I agree its what ever your rifle like best. I don't have a problem using this powder and it appears to be cleaner than 777 and I have not ever had a crud ring with the MZ that we've all had with the 777.

 

[Muley Hunter]

I seem to remember it had a softer recoil compared to BH and T7. Are you finding that too?

 

[Blacksheep]

No not really but I rarely go over 90 grains.  I get good groups when I do my part and the extra powder only creates extra fouling.