Blackhorn 209 vs. Knight KRB7...

[big6x6]

As of TODAY....

Knight has no solution to the slight hang-fire situation that exist when using Blackhorn 209 in a Knight KRB. I am advised that a larger breechplug flash-hole may result in excessive blowback to the shooters head area.

As of right now...the Knight KRB is probably not the best muzzleloader for Blackhorn 209 use.

I am told that Knight is STILL working on a solution, although none available as of right now. I really hate that as my KRB is one of the more accurate muzzleloaders I've shot in a long time.

 

[Grouse]

That's good information Chuck. I really wanted to buy one. Not now.

 

[Underclocked]

there's always the KP1 :wink: I might sell you mine. :lol:

 

[wildhobbybobby]

I had the flash hole in the breech plug of my KRB-7 enlarged to .035" as advised by Knight and did experience blowback with the first try with 100 grains by volume of BH209 with the 405 grain Remington .45/70 bullet in the orange MMP sabot. I reduced the charge to 90 grs. and got no more blowback, but still got very slight hangfires.

I tried BH209 in my Disk Extreme with FPJ breechplug and it worked great with NO hangfires. Soooo, if Knight would simply produce a breech plug for the KRB-7 that handles the spark the same way that the Disk rifle does, problem solved.

I am sure that a concave front surface is needed on the breechplug to concentrate the primer flash on a small portion of the powder charge for snappy ignition. The domed plug ala KRB actually dissipates the primer flash for gentle ignition of T7 and such.

The existing KRB-7 breech plug can not safely have the "dome" removed with a countersink, because the internal expansion chamber at the rear of the plug for the primer flash is too deep and a countersink would cut into it, making it very dangerous to fire the rifle.

Knight, we need a concave breech plug for the KRB-7 with BH209.

 

[NimrodRx]

Good info. guys. Thanks.

 

[big6x6]

Soooo, if Knight would simply produce a breech plug for the KRB-7 that handles the spark the same way that the Disk rifle does, problem solved.

Knight, we need a concave breech plug for the KRB-7 with BH209.

I think it's more complicated than that. This is EXACTLY what I suggested and was told that it takes both the small flash hole AND the domed breechplug to manage blowback since the breechplug is so close to the shooters face. The Extremes breechplug is a good 2 inches farther away from the shooters face and is practically enclosed by the bolt. So the Extreme is able to handle more ignition/breechplug options.

 

[Underclocked]

Maybe Knight should produce .25ACP breech plugs (or similar) for their own rifles. Certainly would be of benefit on the KP1 and I would think also on the KRB. You could also tighten up the closure of the KRB with a stiffer spring.

 

[paia]

I had the flash hole in the breech plug of my KRB-7 enlarged to .035" as advised by Knight and did experience blowback with the first try with 100 grains by volume of BH209 with the 405 grain Remington .45/70 bullet in the orange MMP sabot. I reduced the charge to 90 grs. and got no more blowback, but still got very slight hangfires.

The brochure and info I have from Western Powder concerning BH209 does not endorse shooting bullets over 350 grns.

"Bullets over 350 grains are not recommended."

Have you tried heavy .458 bullets in any other guns with BH209 and had success or problems?

I think you are right about the concave breech plug face. FWIW my Omega's BP is deeply dished and ignition with Win and Fed 209's has been perfect.

 

[wildhobbybobby]

Yes, I did try the 100 gr. BH209 load with the 405 grain Remington .45/70 bullet and orange MMP sabot in my Disk Extreme and got this result:

The 3-shot group measured .8". The 100 grain load chronographed 1592 fps with the 405 gr. bullet.

One thing I noticed was that the primer cup extruded a bit out of the battery cup with the 100 grain load:

I reduced the charge to 90 grains and the chronograph read 1542 fps, for a drop of only 50 fps, but I had one wide flyer and will need to do more testing. The primer cup still extruded with the 90 grain load, but not as much (90 grain load on left in photo; 100 grain load on right). I need to do more experimentation, but the 405 grain bullet seems to be very accurate in the MMP sabot.

 

[michiganbowbender]

Well, I guess I'll stay with the 777 in my KRB, and if I hurry, I can still buy another gallon of gas with the money I saved.

 

[Doug Burche]

As of TODAY....

Knight has no solution to the slight hang-fire situation that exist when using Blackhorn 209 in a Knight KRB. I am advised that a larger breechplug flash-hole may result in excessive blowback to the shooters head area.

As of right now...the Knight KRB is probably not the best muzzleloader for Blackhorn 209 use.

I am told that Knight is STILL working on a solution, although none available as of right now. I really hate that as my KRB is one of the more accurate muzzleloaders I've shot in a long time.

Chuck, just coat the bore with Ultra Bore Coat and then use anything you want,T7,Pyrodex or even BP. It will clean up with 3 to 6 patches when ever you get around to it.No more hang fires problem fixed. Knight has my Getz bbl.right now and are amased that it hasen't been cleaned since last Aug.and no rust.They have been trying to rust there bbls.since last Dec.

 

[NimrodRx]

I had the flash hole in the breech plug of my KRB-7 enlarged to .035" as advised by Knight and did experience blowback with the first try with 100 grains by volume of BH209 with the 405 grain Remington .45/70 bullet in the orange MMP sabot. I reduced the charge to 90 grs. and got no more blowback, but still got very slight hangfires.

The brochure and info I have from Western Powder concerning BH209 does not endorse shooting bullets over 350 grns.

"Bullets over 350 grains are not recommended."

Have you tried heavy .458 bullets in any other guns with BH209 and had success or problems?

I think you are right about the concave breech plug face. FWIW my Omega's BP is deeply dished and ignition with Win and Fed 209's has been perfect.

Very nice.

Thanks for sharing.

BTW, I'm REALLY surprised by the looks of that primer you posted. I've seen nothing like that with max loads (even 150gr of BH209) of any powder. Have you been able to duplicate that? Is it a freak?

 

[big6x6]

The brochure and info I have from Western Powder concerning BH209 does not endorse shooting bullets over 350 grns.

"Bullets over 350 grains are not recommended."

Good point! That heavy of a bullet certainly didn't help blowback..

Chuck, just coat the bore with Ultra Bore Coat and then use anything you want,T7,Pyrodex or even BP. It will clean up with 3 to 6 patches when ever you get around to it.No more hang fires problem fixed.

You know...that's not a bad idea at ALL! :idea:

 

[wildhobbybobby]

I do suspect that I am using too heavy a bullet for BH209. I have 1500 of those Remington .45/70 bullets and sold my .45/70's some time ago. Also, I just like that big bullet. I imagine it would work fine with T7 or Pyrodex, so I may just reserve my KRB-7 for that sort of thing and keep the Disk Extreme for use with BH209.

My buddy and I both bought KRB's expressly for use with BH209, based on some glowing reports we read that never mentioned hangfires. It is disappointing to find that it doesn't work properly in the KRB...I was planning to sell the Disk Extreme and be a One Inline Muzzleloader Kind of Guy, but I guess I'll keep it.

Chuck, I think that if Knight kept the small flash hole and added a shallow concave cavity in the KRB breech plug, that all would be roses and lollipops, but I am no ballistician. I hope Knight keeps trying and solves this problem. I would bet they have sold a freight car load of KRB's just because of BH209, so it would certainly pay to make the marriage work.

 

[big6x6]

My buddy and I both bought KRB's expressly for use with BH209, based on some glowing reports we read that never mentioned hangfires. It is disappointing to find that it doesn't work properly in the KRB.

I'll be the first to say I'm that I'm disappointed. My first fifty or so shots went without a hitch...even when using the loose-fitting Barnes EZ load sabots! But a new breechplug is a new breechplug..and even after cleaning one the best one can with a drill bit one can never return it to "new" status. Carbon accumulation restricts the primer flame and there's not much of a hole to start with and there you have it.. We're not gonna even mention cold temperatures.. Only last night I was told Knight was still working on a BH209 solution though..

I would bet they have sold a freight car load of KRB's just because of BH209, so it would certainly pay to make the marriage work.

I couldn't agree more ESPECIALLY since some of the competition(read Omega) works as is without a hitch..

 

[big6x6]

Maybe Knight should produce .25ACP breech plugs (or similar) for their own rifles. Certainly would be of benefit on the KP1 and I would think also on the KRB. You could also tighten up the closure of the KRB with a stiffer spring.

PERSONALLY...
I wish they would simply have a drop-breech similar to the Omega/Apex.

 

[jascoesens]

Hey guys,

I just purchased a Blue / Black model for $220 at Sportsmans Warehouse.
The question I have relates to the Breech Plug. For some reason I thought that this rifle used a plastic jacket for the primer and that was the reason for the "Hang-Fires"; but I discovered a breech plug designed to more or less hold / use the 209 primers directly.

For those of you who have experienced "Hang-fires" with BH209 & the KRB, is this the kind and shape of the breech plug and Rolling Block Action that you have used? ? ? ?
Link to my KRB breech plug pictures: http://my1.photozig.net/jascoesens/Albu ... opage.html

James

 

[txhunter58]

The KRB only comes with a breech plug that shoots straight 209, no plastic covers. And it only comes with one type of breech plug, the domed type, and yes, this is what they have been having problems with hangfires.

 

[big6x6]

For those of you who have experienced "Hang-fires" with BH209 & the KRB, is this the kind and shape of the breech plug and Rolling Block Action that you have used? ? ? ?
Link to my KRB breech plug pictures: http://my1.photozig.net/jascoesens/Albu ... opage.html

As Tex mentioned, that's exactly it. No other choice for now either.

 

[Lee 9]

Underclocked,The conversion to a shortened 44 brass loaded with a large rifle mag primer is working well so far but it is on a TC Omega. Lee