Brand New and looking for help

[Hausser1]

Welcome from SE Michigan.

 

[Rodderbeck]

Def recommend loose powder.

fffg is the same powder as ffg, it’s just smaller grains. So more of it fits in the same volume. Therefore it is slightly more powerful at the same VOLUME. I would shoot what you can find. Doesn’t make that much diff at this point.

For now, do not weigh your powder, just use volume. In the future, if you want to weigh it, go for it, but no need at this point.

I would start at 80 gr (VOLUME) to learn the ropes. It’s cheaper and it kicks less. Once you learned the basics, then shoot 85gr, 90, 95,, 100. Any of those charges will be plenty. I shoot 95 gr for elk. Use the amount which is the most accurate.

Think about the 45-70 rifle. That is 45 cal and 70 gr of powder. That killed lots of Buffalo. More is not always better.

Def recommend loose powder.

fffg is the same powder as ffg, it’s just smaller grains. So more of it fits in the same volume. Therefore it is slightly more powerful at the same VOLUME. I would shoot what you can find. Doesn’t make that much diff at this point.

For now, do not weigh your powder, just use volume. In the future, if you want to weigh it, go for it, but no need at this point.

I would start at 80 gr (VOLUME) to learn the ropes. It’s cheaper and it kicks less. Once you learned the basics, then shoot 85gr, 90, 95,, 100. Any of those charges will be plenty. I shoot 95 gr for elk. Use the amount which is the most accurate.

Think about the 45-70 rifle. That is 45 cal and 70 gr of powder. That killed lots of Buffalo. More is not always better.

There is a difference between FFF and FF so I would have to disagree. FFF burns faster than FF so it builds barrel pressure faster which gives you better velocity. That's why I use FFF in my 45 cal because it's a lighter bullet. To me any bullets weighing 250gr or less should use FFF no matter if it's a 45 or a 50. Any bullets weighing more than 250gr should be using FF.

 

[drpatton]

There is a difference between FFF and FF so I would have to disagree. FFF burns faster than FF so it builds barrel pressure faster which gives you better velocity.

FFFG burnes faster than FFG because of its greater surface area. Think of a log of wood. Split into quarters and it burns. Chop it into tiny pieces and it catches fire quicker and burns faster. It's the same wood or log. It has to do with how much surface area is available. 4 pieces of the log has less surface area than if it was cut up into kindling, just as the whole log has less surface area than the 4 pieces of split wood.

p.s. Flour will burn when its tossed into the air, but the kernal will not. I know about flour burning that way because when I was younger, a kid poured a pound of flour down the laundry shoot of high rise apartment building, and lit the flour dust hanging in air of the shoot. It nearly destroyed the building.

 

[phalanx]

drpatton,
I disagree with your statement He should use an ""Over The Powder Wad." T7 Burns very hot and he may want to shield the projectile from the heat, whether it's a plastic sabot, belted, lead conical or PRB."

Aren't sabots and hollow base conicals designed to obtruate when the powder is ignited and burns forcing the gasses to seal the open "cup" to the bore enabling all the good things that happen after that? If not, why make sabots and hollow base bullets. If one is melting then plastic sabot, I would think too much powder is being used or something else is wrong. Never, ever seen a melted sabot. I have heard in some cases where a wad might be beneficial to a lead hollow base but I don't believe it's the norm.

 

[LBAhunter]

Just mortgage the house and buy a 8oz bottle of BH209....lol....

 

[txhunter58]

There is a difference between FFF and FF so I would have to disagree. FFF burns faster than FF so it builds barrel pressure faster which gives you better velocity. That's why I use FFF in my 45 cal because it's a lighter bullet. To me any bullets weighing 250gr or less should use FFF no matter if it's a 45 or a 50. Any bullets weighing more than 250gr should be using FF.

We are both right. It IS exactly the same powder, but as stated earlier, smaller /granules chips burn faster/hotter.

What I didn’t see either of you say is more/smaller granules fit in the same volume, so 100 gr V of FFF will weigh more than 100 gr V of FF

More weight of the same powder is going to burn hotter/ produce more pressure/ velocity.

Pretty much the same difference between R/S pyrodex (larger granules) and pyrodex P (smaller granules supposedly for pistols) But there are plenty of people using pyrodex P in rifles with big bullets. I know a guy using 90 gr V of pyrodex P with a 460 gr lead conical as his elk load in his 50 cal. Just have to be careful to not exceed pressure limits.

 

[drpatton]

Aren't sabots and hollow base conicals designed to obtruate when the powder is ignited and burns forcing the gasses to seal the open "cup" to the bore enabling all the good things that happen after that?

The lead still expands or as you said, obturates in the bore. The over the powder wad (OTPW) doesn't prevent that. What it does do, is stop the T7 from burning through patches or melting the plastic wad in the bore. It also protects the lead from deformation at the bullet base.

I was given the "over the powder wad" advice when I complained T7 was burning through any size patch I used for a round ball (.020 was the thickest). I was also told it protects the sabots, which I found it did. I found many if not most of the shooters on this forum, use them when using T7 or BP.
The OTPW can be lubed or unlubed. Try it. You'll like it.

 

[phalanx]

I have heard of and used an over the powder wad for round ball when burning through patches and with flat/solid base lead bullets to protect the base but honestly have not ever heard anyone using them with sabots. Obviously if you have used them and it works for you on sabots that's great but I've never seen the need or anyone else do that. Maybe we should start a thread on that?

 

[drpatton]

Maybe we should start a thread on that?

That's up to you.
If you do a search on the forum, you may find where someone complained (not me) how T7 was melting the plastic sabot in the bore.
I also had it happen, but didn't realize what was gloing on until I tried to clean it. The OTPWs stopped it. I'm sure there would be no reason to use a wad it if you use BP, which burns at a much lower temperature. That said, I know a lot of shooters on here, religiously use OTPWs. With everything.... There are a few gurus on here that advocate their use with any powder or situation.

 

[smokepolehall]

drpatton,
I disagree with your statement He should use an ""Over The Powder Wad." T7 Burns very hot and he may want to shield the projectile from the heat, whether it's a plastic sabot, belted, lead conical or PRB."

Aren't sabots and hollow base conicals designed to obtruate when the powder is ignited and burns forcing the gasses to seal the open "cup" to the bore enabling all the good things that happen after that? If not, why make sabots and hollow base bullets. If one is melting then plastic sabot, I would think too much powder is being used or something else is wrong. Never, ever seen a melted sabot. I have heard in some cases where a wad might be beneficial to a lead hollow base but I don't believe it's the norm.

Sabots blow their ability to seal once they get hot, the powder gas will slip on by. Thats why we let barrel cool or you a cooling rod. Don't let sabots sit in the Sun, they get soft n will blow. I have had to learn the hard way n its a pia to clean/scrub plastic out of the grooves

 

[Rodderbeck]

Sabots blow their ability to seal once they get hot, the powder gas will slip on by. Thats why we let barrel cool or you a cooling rod. Don't let sabots sit in the Sun, they get soft n will blow. I have had to learn the hard way n its a pia to clean/scrub plastic out of the grooves

I just bought some high pressure sabots from knight for my 52 cal. The cups on these things are very thick. I'll see how they perform when I shoot them.

 

[GM54-120]

I just bought some high pressure sabots from knight for my 52 cal. The cups on these things are very thick. I'll see how they perform when I shoot them.

Those sabots are SUPER tough. I shot loads well over 50cal load data listed by Western. 325gr FTX and stop when your shoulder tells you

 

[bronko220002]

Wow I haven't seen him here since his original post! I hope he didn't blow himself up.

 

[Travis299]

I have the Accura V2 in 50 and through recommendations from Carlos who was a guru at Ed's Gun Shop in NC who had me try Barnes 250 gr T-EZ bullets with the dark blue Sabot and 2 pellets of T7, (100 gr). I have had excellent results with this combo for deer hunting. My sons use the Accura MR with this combo and also have had good results. For me the pellets are easy for field use as I mostly hunt from a 18' tree stand. I use this set of tools to seat the bullet onto the pellets and be SURE AND use witness marks on your ramrod for loaded/un-loaded. Good luck.

I just noted the original date of the OPs post!

 

[Mhutch76]

Wow I haven't seen him here since his original post! I hope he didn't blow himself up.

I'm still around quietly soaking up everything. Thanks