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Breech plug???

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Hoobilly

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Joined
Jul 28, 2019
Messages
45
How do you know if your breech plug has gone bad? Savage 2 plug in a Bergara 45/70 conversion

have eliminated scope and rings. Installed a BellM 1X pin. Trigger job etc
Out of 8 shots I can get 3 at a 1” and the others are sporadic. Definitely shooting a cool barrel with blue crush & 200g sst’s
 

michiganmuzzy

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Nov 11, 2018
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2,395
Pin gauges or the torch tip cleaners to check flash hole size. If its over .035 its time to replace it.
 

jsteurrys

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Joined
Sep 30, 2006
Messages
1,123
Install a new vent liner or bushing. You did not mention what your breechplug uses. I use Lehigh vent liners. ASG (Arrowhead Sporting Goods) has bushings. Try the HSB (Harvester Smooth Light Blue) Sabot instead of the Crushribs.
 

Hoobilly

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Joined
Jul 28, 2019
Messages
45
Install a new vent liner or bushing. You did not mention what your breechplug uses. I use Lehigh vent liners. ASG (Arrowhead Sporting Goods) has bushings. Try the HSB (Harvester Smooth Light Blue) Sabot instead of the Crushribs.
Sorry I misspoke. I’m using the light blue harvesters. I have the old savage 2 plug. Ordering Luke’s savage plug with tungsten carbide. Hopefully that’s my problem
 

D55

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Joined
Aug 7, 2018
Messages
402
These are reasons I chose a DI plug for my brake action Apex. I have never taken or needed a followup shot so changing modules time is a non-issue. No ventliners and no bushings to wear out and always goes bang.
 

ported45

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Joined
Sep 24, 2015
Messages
239
I just had my Savage plug fitted with a bushing to get away from the vent liners also. Has not affected accuracy one bit, but since the bushing is recessed it should ignite better.
 

sdporter

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Joined
Sep 19, 2017
Messages
1,059
These are reasons I chose a DI plug for my brake action Apex. I have never taken or needed a followup shot so changing modules time is a non-issue. No ventliners and no bushings to wear out and always goes bang.
Your hit everything you’ve ever shot at first time, every time???? You’re a much better shot than me.
 

D55

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Aug 7, 2018
Messages
402
I have with my Apex so far 17 deer in 2 states in 4 seasons. Not in my lifetime though. I hunt from a climber which affords a solid rest. I did not say I have hit every deer I (ever) shot at.
 

sdporter

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Joined
Sep 19, 2017
Messages
1,059
I missed just yesterday, 200 yard shot at a 2 point muley. I think I screwed up my holdover. No idea. I had a good rest. The shot felt good. Deer ran away unscathed....
 

BadgerRidge

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Joined
May 22, 2015
Messages
59
That must have been frustrating... and is a great example of why it's called deer -hunting- not deer shooting. Hope you do better next time!
 

BadgerRidge

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Joined
May 22, 2015
Messages
59
Whobilly: " Will a worn out Breech cause inconsistencies in groups? "

It's the flash hole that erodes.... as they open up they tend to let more back pressure to the primer... it seems that once they open up how much the change in pressure varies from shot to shot... this tends to open up the groups. You will find lost of folks with different ideas on how big a flash hole should be and when it is worn out. Our vent liners are a type of replaceable flash hole. They start with a hole that is about .030 and once it grows to .036 its recommended to replace it.

There are two basic designs to breech plugs
1 :with replaceable flash holes
2: Non-replaceable flash holes... ie your fix is replacing the entire breech plug or retrofitting a replacable flash hole into it

The later Knight breech plugs have vent liners.. but knight had them silver soldered or epoxied in. My guess is that their legal saw them as a liability (that a shooter could forget to put it in and blow up a primer due to excessive back pressure). Some folks (like Luke at arrowhead that was suggested above) make breech plugs with carbide bushings with holes through them. Carbide is very hard and resists the erosion. But is very expensive, along with EDM'ing holes through cabide.

We sell Lehigh's 17-4 stainless steel vent liners that have been heat treated. They work in many of the existing breech plugs that use the Savage ML-2 style vent liner, and far outlast the original Savage style (that is made out of a softer non heat treated steel alloy... black oxide finish with flat head). Some folks used to do a DIY heat treat on the original savage vent liners... but ours still outclass that by far. To me the cost of the carbide bushing makes sense in a competition rifle, where you are going to shoot and shoot, and want the peace of mind that the flash hole won't errode and cause a flier... and don't want to have to maintain your flash hole as often. But, if you are just hunting, or don't mind changing to a new vent liner before a match, vent liners make more sense to me. I believe you can buy more than 10 of them with a .036 gage pin from me for less than the cost of a bushing. A vent liner's life depends on many variables... but you can get 100 or more shots out of the stainless ones before accuracy suffers. If you have a BP that has a worn flash hole, we can retrofit a vent liner into most of them for about the cost of a new BP. Then after that, you only need to buy vent liners. This is extremely helpful with old ML's that you can't buy a new breech plug for.

If you already have a breech plug with a Savage 2 style ventiner, its a no brainer to me: buy our stainless vent liners and a gage pin (to know when to replace the vent liner before accuracy gets too bad).

This is all just my opinion. And I am here to help you and sell you a product, so you can take it for what it is worth. I hope I answered your question.
 

Hoobilly

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2019
Messages
45
Whobilly: " Will a worn out Breech cause inconsistencies in groups? "

It's the flash hole that erodes.... as they open up they tend to let more back pressure to the primer... it seems that once they open up how much the change in pressure varies from shot to shot... this tends to open up the groups. You will find lost of folks with different ideas on how big a flash hole should be and when it is worn out. Our vent liners are a type of replaceable flash hole. They start with a hole that is about .030 and once it grows to .036 its recommended to replace it.

There are two basic designs to breech plugs
1 :with replaceable flash holes
2: Non-replaceable flash holes... ie your fix is replacing the entire breech plug or retrofitting a replacable flash hole into it

The later Knight breech plugs have vent liners.. but knight had them silver soldered or epoxied in. My guess is that their legal saw them as a liability (that a shooter could forget to put it in and blow up a primer due to excessive back pressure). Some folks (like Luke at arrowhead that was suggested above) make breech plugs with carbide bushings with holes through them. Carbide is very hard and resists the erosion. But is very expensive, along with EDM'ing holes through cabide.

We sell Lehigh's 17-4 stainless steel vent liners that have been heat treated. They work in many of the existing breech plugs that use the Savage ML-2 style vent liner, and far outlast the original Savage style (that is made out of a softer non heat treated steel alloy... black oxide finish with flat head). Some folks used to do a DIY heat treat on the original savage vent liners... but ours still outclass that by far. To me the cost of the carbide bushing makes sense in a competition rifle, where you are going to shoot and shoot, and want the peace of mind that the flash hole won't errode and cause a flier... and don't want to have to maintain your flash hole as often. But, if you are just hunting, or don't mind changing to a new vent liner before a match, vent liners make more sense to me. I believe you can buy more than 10 of them with a .036 gage pin from me for less than the cost of a bushing. A vent liner's life depends on many variables... but you can get 100 or more shots out of the stainless ones before accuracy suffers. If you have a BP that has a worn flash hole, we can retrofit a vent liner into most of them for about the cost of a new BP. Then after that, you only need to buy vent liners. This is extremely helpful with old ML's that you can't buy a new breech plug for.

If you already have a breech plug with a Savage 2 style ventiner, its a no brainer to me: buy our stainless vent liners and a gage pin (to know when to replace the vent liner before accuracy gets too bad).

This is all just my opinion. And I am here to help you and sell you a product, so you can take it for what it is worth. I hope I answered your question.
I did buy a breech with tungsten carbide From Luke. The barrel I had looked at and is beautiful inside and out. I was getting some blowback smoke after the shot so I am of the belief that it’s worn out. Will be shooting it next week to see where I’m at with it. Thank you for the info
 

D55

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2018
Messages
402
Is the sealing shoulder of the breech plug OK? Flame cutting etc? If it is Hankins sells repair sav breech plugs but they require re-cutting the barrel sealing shelf.
 

Hoobilly

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2019
Messages
45
Is the sealing shoulder of the breech plug OK? Flame cutting etc? If it is Hankins sells repair sav breech plugs but they require re-cutting the barrel sealing shelf.
My new breech plug from Arrowhead arrives tomorrow. I will inspect my old one next to the new one and see if theres anything visible that I can see
 

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