Changing Rear Peep Sights and holes in the Tang

[drpatton]

I originally asked this question on another forum, and never received an answer.

I have several T/C Renegades with a Williams FP-Hawken peeps on the tang. I want to take one off and replace it with a Soule type. Probably a Lee shaver, but not certain at this point. Does that mean another hole must be drilled in the tang?

What I fear is every time I change the rear tang sight, I have to add another hole in it. Is this true and if so, how can I avoid it?
I haven't found any standardization among manufactures. I hope there is, but I have not seen it.

If I have a 57SML and go to a FP-Hawken or vice versa, does that mean another set of holes in the tang?

Thanks in advance

 

[Harleysboss]

I would call Lee Shaver and talk to him about the soule sight. He will be able to get you set on the right sight. I know he has helped others with sight set up on their long range ML set ups. TC rifles to be exact. Idaholewis used his vernier tang sight on at least one of his rifles. He has gone quiet on the forums as of late. Maybe he will be back someday??

 

[drpatton]

Is there some type of standardization for hole alignment? If I go from a 57SML to a FP-Hawken. do I have to drill another hole?

If the answer is yeas, then it is best to put on a peep and leave it there for eternity. otherwise, I may as well have a long elongated slot in my tang. What about the wood underneath the tang?

I may call Lee Shaver. However, I was trying to look ahead. I will not need the Soule for a couple years.

Most of my Renegades have Fp-Hawken Peeps. For whatever reason, these sights are cheaper and I believe, better than the 57SML. Most of my renegades have FPs. I may change the 57SML to a FP on one of those rifles. Some time later one of these rifles will end up with a Lee Shaver Mid Range Soule.

Does that mean my tangs & stocks will be full of holes? If yes, I may just keep what I have to keep the integrity of the tang.

 

[X-ring]

Is there some type of standardization for hole alignment? If I go from a 57SML to a FP-Hawken. do I have to drill another hole?

If the answer is yeas, then it is best to put on a peep and leave it there for eternity. otherwise, I may as well have a long elongated slot in my tang. What about the wood underneath the tang?

I may call Lee Shaver. However, I was trying to look ahead. I will not need the Soule for a couple years.

Most of my Renegades have Fp-Hawken Peeps. For whatever reason, these sights are cheaper and I believe, better than the 57SML. Most of my renegades have FPs. I may change the 57SML to a FP on one of those rifles. Some time later one of these rifles will end up with a Lee Shaver Mid Range Soule.

Does that mean my tangs & stocks will be full of holes? If yes, I may just keep what I have to keep the integrity of the tang.

You could always call to find out the hole spacing on the sight. Offhand I would guess you will need another hole in your tang. I don't think that is too big of a deal since you could fill the extra hole in the tang with a filler screw. A hole in the wrist might look kind of ugly though. X

 

[451whitworth]

I have no idea of your abilities but I would build a base that mounts to your existing tang holes then drill/tap the base for the Soule sight. One thing I would never do is put a wood screw into the wrist of the stock. I had to build custom sight mounts for my Whitworth and Volunteer rifles because I refused to drill new holes and use (Ugh!) wood screws.

 

[Bad Karma]

Is there some type of standardization for hole alignment? If I go from a 57SML to a FP-Hawken. do I have to drill another hole?

If the answer is yeas, then it is best to put on a peep and leave it there for eternity. otherwise, I may as well have a long elongated slot in my tang. What about the wood underneath the tang?

I may call Lee Shaver. However, I was trying to look ahead. I will not need the Soule for a couple years.

Most of my Renegades have Fp-Hawken Peeps. For whatever reason, these sights are cheaper and I believe, better than the 57SML. Most of my renegades have FPs. I may change the 57SML to a FP on one of those rifles. Some time later one of these rifles will end up with a Lee Shaver Mid Range Soule.

Does that mean my tangs & stocks will be full of holes? If yes, I may just keep what I have to keep the integrity of the tang.

Fp and 57 use the same spacing as the TC sight.

 

[drpatton]

I have no idea of your abilities

I am not mechanically inclined. I would take the rifle to a gunsmith to have them do it.
In fact, a gunsmith has attached all of my peep sights.

If I created a base mount for my tang, on my own, I would go through several mounts, break my original tang and then take it to a gunsmith to fix what I broke and then perform the task I originally tried to do.

The saying "you learn from your mistakes," only makes me poor and I can no longer afford to be educated by that method..

 

[WP79Vet]

I am not mechanically inclined. I would take the rifle to a gunsmith to have them do it.
In fact, a gunsmith has attached all of my peep sights.

If I created a base mount for my tang, on my own, I would go through several mounts, break my original tang and then take it to a gunsmith to fix what I broke and then perform the task I originally tried to do.

The saying "you learn from your mistakes," only makes me poor and I can no longer afford to be educated by that method..

Lol....

Sounds like you've just recognized another corollary of Murphy's Law: "We may or may not LEARN from our mistakes, but mistakes ALWAYS make us poorer."

I guess you could just think of your tang as being drilled out for weight reduction, and admire the extra holes?

 

[Bad Karma]

Along those lines, I called Lee Shaver and asked his advice for mounting the soule and other various tang sights on the TC muzzleloading rifles, he recommended mounting his muzzleloader specific base low enough on the wrist so that the foresight didn’t need to be inordinately tall. He also feels that using a wood screw into the wrist is a fine and acceptable practice.

 

[drpatton]

I called Lee Shaver and asked his advice for mounting the soule and other various tang sights on the TC muzzleloading rifles

Thank you for contacting Lee Shaver.
I didn't have an issue with wood screws into the wood, with the exception of too many holes from past sights.
The Thompson Center Tang is stout and long for a reason. It is designed to take a pounding over a long period of time.
Maybe T/C thought ahead, and their tang may owe some of its length for the application of various sights, knowing there could be a few holes drilled into the tang. I have no idea if this is correct.

 

[drpatton]

"We may or may not LEARN from our mistakes, but mistakes ALWAYS make us poorer."

I never thought of Murphy's Law applying to this, but it does. Perfectly.
Also, I'm not sure how pleasing a Holy tang would be.

 

[idahoron]

When I ordered my Lee Shavers sight he sent it with the same spacing as the Lyman, TC, and the Williams sight.

 

[idahoron]

Along those lines, I called Lee Shaver and asked his advice for mounting the soule and other various tang sights on the TC muzzleloading rifles, he recommended mounting his muzzleloader specific base low enough on the wrist so that the foresight didn’t need to be inordinately tall. He also feels that using a wood screw into the wrist is a fine and acceptable practice.

I still had to have the taller front sight for mine. It is a fariss front sight.

 

[idahoron]

I have no idea of your abilities but I would build a base that mounts to your existing tang holes then drill/tap the base for the Soule sight. One thing I would never do is put a wood screw into the wrist of the stock. I had to build custom sight mounts for my Whitworth and Volunteer rifles because I refused to drill new holes and use (Ugh!) wood screws.

I built this base. It is made out of aluminum so it was easy to work with and was perfect for getting more distance out of my existing sight.

 

[idahoron]

Most of my Renegades have Fp-Hawken Peeps. For whatever reason, these sights are cheaper and I believe, better than the 57SML. Most of my renegades have FPs. I may change the 57SML to a FP on one of those rifles. Some time later one of these rifles will end up with a Lee Shaver Mid Range Soule.

Does that mean my tangs & stocks will be full of holes? If yes, I may just keep what I have to keep the integrity of the tang.

When someone says one is better than another, I have to ask for them to quantify that statement.
I have both types of sights. The Lyman and the Williams FP. Both are very good but I like each for different reasons. The main reason I like the Lyman is the quick release button.

You push that button and it releases the slider to move. With my sight settings painted on the plate I can make quick adjustments.

The Williams FP peep is a solid peep. A friend of mine named Mike was the first guy that I saw that had a FP with the Gib Lock screw.

That is the knob screw that locks the slider. Back in 2014 my son was using that sight on his knight MK85.

He had to carry a screw driver to loosen the screw and then adjust it, then tighten the screw back up. I met my friend Mike on that hunt and he showed me the gib lock screw. I mounted them on both of my FP sights and that made field adjusting possible.

Which one is better?
The Lyman's have been sighted in and have not changed those sight in's in over 14 years. That's not just a single 100 yard sight in. That is 50 yards to 300 yards in 50 yard increments.
I have three Lyman's and each has 6 sight in increments. None of those has changed ever. Another thing that I like about the Lyman is with a push of the button I can slide the sight out and put it in my pocket when I am ridding a motor cycle, or a horse, or if I am in shale rock and I just want to protect the sight. Even riding in the seat of the truck with a couple rifles. Sights can get banged up. When I remove the slider Like this I don't worry about bumping it.

The Williams is a over all smaller more compact sight. With the addition of the Gib Lock screw it is a solid sight. But the gib lock screw must be fitted for it to work.
The FP isn't as fast to adjust in the field. And taking it off like I do the Lyman is far more time consuming. I have never taken one off just to protect it like I do the Lyman it takes too long to do it.

If I were making a target rifle only I would just go with a Lee shavers mid range with a Hadley eye cup. That by far is the best dedicated target sight that has been discussed.
If I was setting up a hunting gun that often plays out to 300 or 400 yards then decide witch better suits your needs.

 

[drpatton]

When someone says one is better than another, I have to ask for them to quantify that statement.

All but 2 of my peeps are FP-Hawkens with Target Knobs. Of the other 2, one is a 57SML & the other one is a FP without knobs.
I like the sight. It is easier to make adjustments, it locks down and it's $48 cheaper than the Lyman. For me, there is no reason to purchase the 57SML.
I'm sure others love it and believe the extra $48 is worth it. (Prices are from BACO)

 

[drpatton]

If I were making a target rifle only I would just go with a Lee shavers mid range with a Hadley eye cup. That by far is the best dedicated target sight that has been discussed.

I plan to place the Lee Shaver mid-range on a NIB Renegade I own. I kept the rifle a virgin until I knew what I wanted to to with it.
I also plan to put a Lee Shaver on the stock I have waiting for my Rice barrel.

The problem is, at this time, I'm not good enough for a Lee Shaver.

 

[idahoron]

I like the sight. It is easier to make adjustments, it locks down and it's $48 cheaper than the Lyman. For me, there is no reason to purchase the 57SML.
I'm sure others love it and believe the extra $48 is worth it.

The FP without the Gib Lock screw uses a screw driver to move the sight. For me that's not easier to adjust.
That sight does lock down. But it has to. If not it flops around.
For target the fp will work fine.
For hunting the 57sml is definitely worth it for quick adjustment.

 

[WP79Vet]

I never thought of Murphy's Law applying to this, but it does. Perfectly.
Also, I'm not sure how pleasing a Holy tang would be.

May the Holy Spirit lead you to the right decision!

 

[Bad Karma]

The FP without the Gib Lock screw uses a screw driver to move the sight. For me that's not easier to adjust.
That sight does lock down. But it has to. If not it flops around.
For target the fp will work fine.
For hunting the 57sml is definitely worth it for quick adjustment.

I’m completely in agreement with that. I like both sights but for a hunting sight I’d take the Lyman every day of the week. I also have the Target Knobs and Target style Gib Lock screw on my FP’s. They’re just unhandy without them. Both are solid sights and you can hardly go wrong with either.