Cost of Powder - Amounts by VOLUME

[Squeeze]

Re: Cost of Powder

the old school traditionalist are just never going to see eye to eye with the new school modern guys. I think it would somehow cause a total meltdown of the time space continuum and we would all implode.

 

[bestill]

Re: Cost of Powder

I have the utmost respect for old technology shooters and new technology shooters they all are dedicated to the sport and trying new ideals that how we learn.

 

[Smyrnagc]

Re: Cost of Powder

OK guys...I've been watching this thread for two days and there has been some fantastic information being shared. I learned a ton! However, please stop getting personal with the comments. Lively debate is healthy but personal comments because of differences of opinion is not. There is probably some more that can be learned from this but if the one-on-one derogatory remarks continue I will lock the thread.

Thanks for understanding.

 

[jwhill]

Re: Cost of Powder

You are correct, and if I have offended anyone, I am truly sorry. I have a lot of respect for guys like bestill, I have seen him shoot, he's very good. I will agree to disagree with some , and move on, see you all at the range.

 

[52Bore]

Re: Cost of Powder

It was just a basic matrix/chart to depict the powder cost of shooting. Find the cost of you powder purchase price, locate your particular load, and there is the cost per shot. This was not intended to be a direct comparison toward either powder at all - just what it cost to shoot either Black or BH.
Somewhere it got off track for the need to compare Velocity vs Velocity. I never mentioned anything about velocity.

Please PM me if you have questions on calculations based on how many actual powder charges you get out of your can of powder.

 

[Muley Hunter]

Re: Cost of Powder

Velocity has to be figured in when comparing powders for cost. It doesn't do you any good to have a powder that's cheap to buy if you have to use more of it for the same performance as a more expensive powder.




On another note that's been mentioned. BH is not a soft shooting powder. It may be a progressive powder, but it based on a progressing smokeless powder. Smokeless has always had a sharper initial recoil than BP and some subs. Nothing is as soft a recoiling powder as real BP. Then you have the hot BP powder like Olde Enysford and Swiss that have a sharper recoil. In subs you have the same. Pyrodex RS is pretty soft as is Sharkey's family of powders. BH and T7 have a sharper recoil. Going to 3F in any powder gives a sharper recoil.

BH is at the upper end of felt recoil. Due to some medical problems i'm very sensitive to recoil, and I may notice recoil more than some others. I never liked BH for that reason. especially, in a light inline. I'm happy now to be back using BP or Pyro RS in a heavier sidelock.

 

[Muley Hunter]

Re: Cost of Powder

 

[52Bore]

Re: Cost of Powder

I called a good friend and shooter today (JD) who has tested his BP load with great accuracy in his in-line even at 1000 yards to see if he had tested BH209 to get the same velocity. He did a chronograph test to see how much BH209 it would take to get the same 1350 MV with his 525gr bullet.
His std load is 90gr Swiss 2F by weight.
He found he needed 47gr of BH209 by weight.
Comparing cost for the same Velocity:
Black – 32 cents/shot
BH209 – 47 cents/shot
BH209 is 46% more to shoot than Black with this load.
This example is based on my local retail can of Black at $25, BH209 at $40

In a recent post bestill started: 500 yard Blackhorn specs...
Compare the cost of shooting between what these two top shooters have posted:
bestill: shooting BH209, 90gr by weight = 86 cents
jwhill: shooting Black 78gr by weight = 28 cents
301% more to shoot the bestill load – powder only. I believe this is what jwhill was referring to in his post about why should he shoot BH209.

I’ll get some data on Bullets soon..

 

[bestill]

Re: Cost of Powder

I will help with my load
327 parker match hunter $2.14
Blackhorn209 powder .59 cents
.060 veggie wad. .07 cents
Federal primer209a. .03 cents
$2.83 total

 

[ENCORE50A]

Re: Cost of Powder

..............He found he needed 47gr of BH209 by weight.
Comparing cost for the same Velocity:
Black – 32 cents/shot
BH209 – 47 cents/shot
BH209 is 46% more to shoot than Black with this load.
This example is based on my local retail can of Black at $25, BH209 at $40 ..

I'd check that math again, I believe your 4¢ higher on the BH209 price.

If BH209 is purchased in 5#, using your friends 47gr requirement per shot, it should run around 30¢ per shot.

Now I've been known to make mistakes, just ask my wife. I could certainly have made a mathematical mistake in my calculations also.

$40 a jug for BH is a high retail price IMO. In the area where I live, its a minimum of 2 hours to even hit a freeway. It goes for $32 at mom & pop stores here.

7000/16= 437.5......... 437.5x10= 4375.......... 4375/47grs= 93.09 shots per container.

93 shots per 10oz container at 47grs per shot.......... $40 (local price)/93 shots = 43¢ per shot, a mathematical savings of 4¢


5#..$225.00 ....... 7000x5= 35,000grs 35,000/47grs= 744.68 ...... $225/744= 30¢ per shot.

 

[52Bore]

Re: Cost of Powder

Encore50A:
Yep, I like your math. You calculate the same as I, but looks like in this instance I made an error in my last post -sorry about that. I looked at my data /matrix at the beginning of this post and 50gr is the lowest shown, so I did the calculation like yours at 47gr and made an error somewhere. Please feel free to double-check a few of my data/matrix to assure there is not an error.
$0.43 is what I get. Now it's only 34% higher to shoot BH209 in this example. Like jwhill stated, why would anyone shoot more expensive powder if it doesn't mean anything?
Is that $225 for a 5# jug? That doesn't seem like a deal at $45/lb. check that...

Can't figure out why everyone goes down the price road with only BH209? Take the spreadsheet as it is with your particular load (BP or BH) and be happy with your 'cost per load' it was made to make things easy for people on this forum who might not know how (or want) to do all the calculations. Sure as you know $25 is at the upper end of BP as well. Just don't want to continue going back-in-forth down the price of powder road as everyone can get it for different pieces - THAT"S why I made the spreadsheet I posted.
Thanks for double checking.

 

[Smyrnagc]

Re: Cost of Powder

Good stuff guys! Very helpful information! Thanks for doing this.

 

[Muley Hunter]

Re: Cost of Powder

90gr of Swiss is the same as 47gr of BH? I need something more official to accept that.

 

[jwhill]

Re: Cost of Powder

The reason it looks skewed is he using 2f, it would be 78-80 of 3f.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Re: Cost of Powder

Encore50A:
Yep, I like your math. You calculate the same as I, but looks like in this instance I made an error in my last post -sorry about that. I looked at my data /matrix at the beginning of this post and 50gr is the lowest shown, so I did the calculation like yours at 47gr and made an error somewhere. Please feel free to double-check a few of my data/matrix to assure there is not an error.
$0.43 is what I get. Now it's only 34% higher to shoot BH209 in this example. Like jwhill stated, why would anyone shoot more expensive powder if it doesn't mean anything?
Is that $225 for a 5# jug? That doesn't seem like a deal at $45/lb. check that...

Can't figure out why everyone goes down the price road with only BH209? Take the spreadsheet as it is with your particular load (BP or BH) and be happy with your 'cost per load' it was made to make things easy for people on this forum who might not know how (or want) to do all the calculations. Sure as you know $25 is at the upper end of BP as well. Just don't want to continue going back-in-forth down the price of powder road as everyone can get it for different pieces - THAT"S why I made the spreadsheet I posted.
Thanks for double checking.

Well I don't have a dog in the fight anymore on this one, but I will check over math at times :wink: . I'm not shooting BP or BH any more, although I have 4# of BP on the bench which I could and probably should shoot up. I shot BH, lots of it. Thousands of rounds down range with BH out of Encores and Pro Hunters. Price difference didn't mean a thing to me, not at all. I probably could have cast my own bullets and saved a ton of money but, I chose to shoot Barnes and only Barnes, which costs considerably more. However.....I will admit that the wife doesn't share the same opinion with costs, at all.

BH has its benefits to some shooters, regardless of its cost, which is why many shooters use it. I liked it as I could set at the bench, shoot 40-60 rounds from my Pro Hunter and never swab the barrel or lose my POI at 100 or 200yds. Just clean out the flash channel every 8 to 10 shots and just keep on shoot'n. Cleaning, just run a couple patches of Hoppe's, dry patches until it came out clean, lubricate barrel and put it into the safe. Hunting....swab out any lubricant, shoot 2 fouling rounds, load it up the day before the season and leave it loaded until the season ended or I harvested. A week of down time between the regular firearm and dedicated muzz, was 200yd practice time. Clean the rifle as described above, then the day before the season, repeat the process. Unless I fell in a creek or hunted in the pouring rain, I never worried about ignition or corrosion and NEVER had any. Since it became available I've hunted with it in some pretty nasty weather, I've NEVER, NOT ONE SINGLE TIME had a FTF or HF. I could leave it loaded during 8 days of hunting, decide to harvest at 200yds, the rifle fired as expected and put a dandy hole completely through a whitetail at 200yds and the deer into the back of my gator or quad. I liked it because with a 150yd zero, it shot 2" high at 100yds and 6.5" low at 200yds. That's basically a hold dead on 200yd rifle/bullet/propellant deer kill'n machine.

I'm shooting T7 now (again) and it appears to be working out just fine. artyman:

Now......... If I could only get bestill and jwhill to teach me how to shoot out to 500yds accurately like they both do and learn more about the wind, I'd be happy shooter :yeah:

 

[Muley Hunter]

Re: Cost of Powder

Does he really use 90gr by weight of Swiss with a 535gr bullet? Is the gun really heavy? Recoil must be stout.

 

[long shot]

Re: Cost of Powder

Does he really use 90gr by weight of Swiss with a 535gr bullet? Is the gun really heavy? Recoil must be stout.

Yes he really uses 90 grn. and 535 bullet and so do I and so does about everyone that shoots Long Range. I use same load of powder with 500 grn bullet, in my Knight and my Pedersoli Gibbs Rifle Both PP.
The other Gentleman , be glad to help you read wind , for what I know of it, like competing with Bestill and especially jwhill!!!!

 

[Lee 9]

Re: Cost of Powder

Well guys I do not see the reason some are a bit agitated, the cost is not really something to get angry about if you don't like it the use an other choice there are several good ones out there.
There are several things that can enter into the question of what should I use that don't concern cost. For instance Sabot loader has used 777 and had great luck with it he lives at a higher elevation and it works great for him I live at a bit above sea level and the crud ring we get here make it impractical to use so I buy BH in 5 pound containers for my inlines and Pyrodex and black for my pistols and traditional.
I just wonder how many out there buy what is appropriate for the particular gun in question and like me get the best price they can find and don't worry about what suits the next guy.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Re: Cost of Powder

Does he really use 90gr by weight of Swiss with a 535gr bullet? Is the gun really heavy? Recoil must be stout.

Yes he really uses 90 grn. and 535 bullet and so do I and so does about everyone that shoots Long Range. I use same load of powder with 500 grn bullet, in my Knight and my Pedersoli Gibbs Rifle Both PP.
The other Gentleman , be glad to help you read wind , for what I know of it, like competing with Bestill and especially jwhill!!!!

Bestill (thanks to him) has already helped quite a little through a couple PM's and a phone call but, there's a lot to learn and I'm open to listening to all. I'm certainly hoping to meeting some of those great shooters on May 2nd.

I'm working on the transition from long range hunting to a better long range target shooter, which will only make my long range hunting better. IMO its a great thing that long range hunter/target shooters are now starting to become members of more muzzleloading forums, AND PARTICIPATING. Although many may never hunt or shoot targets at long range, there's a lot to be learned from those who do. Part of this post has been a huge learning experience for many, regardless of any debate or disagreements. Who'd have thought, shooting a 390-500gr PP bullet, with less than 100grs of BP and consistently hitting a target at 500yds, with some shooting out to 1,000yds? Last spring's Friendship match, indicates that even production rifle owners can shoot and learn from the match, Optima, Knight Little Horn, Black Diamond, Omegas, Accura's.... all rifles and shooters are welcomed and can learn how to accurately shoot and shoot longer ranges.
There's a lot everybody can learn and if you stop wanting to learn, sorry for your loss......

 

[Muley Hunter]

Re: Cost of Powder

What's the volume for 90gr of Swiss by weight?