CVA Paramount

[Busta]

That was the old Variflame that used a small primer. The new one is actually called Large Rifle Variflame. Until someone actually gets one we just dont know if its standard LRVF or a special order from CVA. I saw a guy in another video say that the twist was 1-28 too but we know that is wrong.

Old https://www.prbullet.com/vf.htm
New https://www.prbullet.com/lrvf.htm

Chad Schearer is one of the big shots at CVA. Chad Schearer director of advertising/media relations, BPI Outdoors (parent company of CVA). You would think he would know what he's talking about? Unless he meant that there will be 2 different breech plugs? One for the Large Vari-Flame, and one for 209 primers? The bolt face is supposed to be self headspacing, and there is nothing that extracts either primer. A 209 primer insert could be added to the Vari-Flame breech plug, or an easy aftermarket 209 plug could be made. Maybe Luke is already on it?

Anyway, here is what Schearer said.

“The Paramount was built around CVA’s VariFlame breech plug, which uses a hotter and more consistent large rifle primer rather than the 209 shotshell primer,” Schearer says. “With the VariFlame our extreme spreads in velocities suddenly went to single digits. This was huge for long-range accuracy. You can still use the standard 209 primer, if you wish, but to really access all the performance of which this rifle is capable, and by that I mean range and consistent accuracy, we recommend using the large rifle primer.”

https://www.range365.com/cva-paramount-muzzleloader-rifle-review#page-3


Looks pretty clear to me. What else could he have meant? 2 Breech Plugs???

 

[Chick]

GM54-120 said: ↑
That was the old Variflame that used a small primer. The new one is actually called Large Rifle Variflame. Until someone actually gets one we just dont know if its standard LRVF or a special order from CVA. I saw a guy in another video say that the twist was 1-28 too but we know that is wrong.

Old https://www.prbullet.com/vf.htm
New https://www.prbullet.com/lrvf.htm

I am confused here. If you go to these links, they say that the 209 primer is too hot and causing breech plug fouling and inconsistent ignition. It also states that they think flyers are caused by the 209 going off, and lifting the sabot off the powder charges, before they ignite. Now, all this time, we have been told and we have repeated, they we need to use the hottest 209 primer that we can get. Also, somewhere, in this Vari-flame conversation, it was stated how much hotter the LR primer was, than the 209 primer. There is a lot of conflicting information here!

 

[ENCORE50A]

Many professional shooters are more inclined to state that fliers are more the shooters fault. Most point to the shooter themselves, next would be the gear used, followed by environment.
Very few shooters are ever 100% consistent.
The 209 magnum primer or the LRMP will ignite BH instantly.

 

[SuperKirby]

I know this (which isn't much.) I've shot 209's a lot. Theyve always worked for meme when I've wanted one to go bang. But I also know that in my Knight, my factory Pro Hunter, and now my custom Encore barrel have all had some issues with sticky primers. It's my understanding that the LRMP setup eliminates this. I can't ask for much better accuracy than I'm getting now but if I can switch to an LRMP plug and have the modules drop out every time then I'll take that over having to pry out every third or fourth primer.

 

[lwh723]

Considering they say you can use 209's, but don't recommend it. I'm guessing it's the 22 hornet size. They had the modules there at SHOT, but I didn't look that closely.

I know no one is saying I have in this thread, but for the record, I have never claimed credit for the module concept. Was definitely a good idea by Vince.

 

[lwh723]

In my experience working as an engineer for several large companies, marketing/advertising guys are typically next to clueless when it comes to technical details. There's a few that get it--very few. My brother is in sales and is very sharp technically, but growing up doing farm work, etc, kind of helps with that.

Chad Schearer is one of the big shots at CVA. Chad Schearer director of advertising/media relations, BPI Outdoors (parent company of CVA). You would think he would know what he's talking about? Unless he meant that there will be 2 different breech plugs? One for the Large Vari-Flame, and one for 209 primers? The bolt face is supposed to be self headspacing, and there is nothing that extracts either primer. A 209 primer insert could be added to the Vari-Flame breech plug, or an easy aftermarket 209 plug could be made. Maybe Luke is already on it?

Anyway, here is what Schearer said.

“The Paramount was built around CVA’s VariFlame breech plug, which uses a hotter and more consistent large rifle primer rather than the 209 shotshell primer,” Schearer says. “With the VariFlame our extreme spreads in velocities suddenly went to single digits. This was huge for long-range accuracy. You can still use the standard 209 primer, if you wish, but to really access all the performance of which this rifle is capable, and by that I mean range and consistent accuracy, we recommend using the large rifle primer.”

https://www.range365.com/cva-paramount-muzzleloader-rifle-review#page-3


Looks pretty clear to me. What else could he have meant? 2 Breech Plugs???

 

[Busta]

Considering they say you can use 209's, but don't recommend it. I'm guessing it's the 22 hornet size. They had the modules there at SHOT, but I didn't look that closely.

I know no one is saying I have in this thread, but for the record, I have never claimed credit for the module concept. Was definitely a good idea by Vince.

I don't think anyone has insinuated that, all but one other fellow that thinks it was his design. You guys have perfected it though with the right material and the snout.

In my experience working as an engineer for several large companies, marketing/advertising guys are typically next to clueless when it comes to technical details. There's a few that get it--very few. My brother is in sales and is very sharp technically, but growing up doing farm work, etc, kind of helps with that.

Totally understand. Grew up on a farm myself. I think Schearer has been with them for around 20 years, and has wore several hats for them. I know he shoots and hunts, so I don't think he's totally clueless? Maybe the prototypes obviously had both types of ignition, at least during testing. I just remember reading his quote in that link, and seems plausible that there could be a 209 option.

It would be nice if they came with both breech plugs. Their bolt nose doesn't secure, insert, or extract the primer or module anyways. Yet!

Did they have a breech plug you could look at that wasn't installed in a rifle?

I'm probably going to eventually talk myself in to one if these rifles, if they don't offer it in the MR. It won't be until after the ignition gets improved, and they offer it in the Hunter Or Ridge stock though, so that's my out.

 

[Chick]

Unless they had custom modules made the Variflame is based on 22 hornet which is larger than a 209.

From North American Muzzleloading Hunting. From the article, CVA supplied the info. Instead of relying on the good ol' No. 209 shotshell primer for ignition, CVA is going with a breech plug that has been designed to utilize an adapter, designed by Cecil Epps of Precision Rifle, which allows the use of hot Magnum Large Rifle primers. That system is known as the Vari-Flame.

 

[Huntingjeff]

The 22 hornet system is similar to the rem 700 umm system and is not the same as the variflame. The variflame adapter which uses a large rifle prime inserted in it has the same outside dimensions as a 209 primer. That is why you can use a 209 without the adapter.

 

[Huntingjeff]

O

 

[Huntingjeff]

 

[ronlaughlin]

.........The variflame adapter which uses a large rifle prime inserted in it has the same outside dimensions as a 209 primer.............

False, the outside diameter of the adapter that uses a large rifle primer, is larger than the diameter of the 209 primer.

 

[GM54-120]

The 22 hornet system is similar to the rem 700 umm system and is not the same as the variflame. The variflame adapter which uses a large rifle prime inserted in it has the same outside dimensions as a 209 primer. That is why you can use a 209 without the adapter.

I guess you did not look at the pics that were posted. Its obviously larger for the Large Rifle primer version.

 

[Dougs136Schwartz]

Ron would know

 

[GM54-120]

From North American Muzzleloading Hunting. From the article, CVA supplied the info. Instead of relying on the good ol' No. 209 shotshell primer for ignition, CVA is going with a breech plug that has been designed to utilize an adapter, designed by Cecil Epps of Precision Rifle, which allows the use of hot Magnum Large Rifle primers. That system is known as the Vari-Flame.

How does that apply as a response to my post? We have known that since the info was leaked in June. The point i was making is Cecil could have easily machined them slightly different for CVA per their request.

 

[GM54-120]

Ron would know

He sure would. The pic that was posted was his. PR's website says you use a 22 hornet shell plate to reprime them. SAAMI specs are pretty clear on the size of the rim.

The LRVF Adapters: The LRVF adapters accept Large Rifle primers. The adapter slides into the new bolt face and then into the new breech plug. Large rifle primers are installed into the adapter with any hand priming tool equipped with a .22 Hornet shell holder. Spent primers are easily removed from the adapters with a simple pin punch and mallet. The adapters are machined from #316 stainless steel and designed for a lifetime of use.

 

[Huntingjeff]

Excuse me, I confused the variflame 2 with the variflame which you can use in the standard 209 breech plug.

 

[Huntingjeff]

I have the 25 acp breech plug in my encore using magnum small rifle primers and am happy with it, I just hope the got the paramount variflame sealed up. Gm54-120 do you no on the variflame 2 being that the paramount is a self head spacing bolt could it be possible to use o rings to help seal?

 

[GM54-120]

The thing is though....Since the little pocket in the bolt is larger than a 209, in theory you could still add a 209 breach plug and it could be made to work. Luke at ASG has made plugs for both and OAL can be setup to use either just by swapping plugs.

This is assuming there is enough length in the plug to work with either style ignition. We havent seen a good pic of the plug yet or its dimensions.

 

[GM54-120]

I have the 25 acp breech plug in my encore using magnum small rifle primers and am happy with it, I just hope the got the paramount variflame sealed up. Gm54-120 do you no on the variflame 2 being that the paramount is a self head spacing bolt could it be possible to use o rings to help seal?

I think Ron did something like that with his Omega? plug using the LRVF modules from Cecil. Orings though dont work well with the twisting of the bolt. Since the Paramont bolt does not hold the primer i guess its a possibility but not likely.