Does anyone have experience with this ML?

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I have some of those Hornady GP's in my cart to try out.

It seems that Lyman makes a mold for it? But I read nothing but bad things about the bullets it produces.
Then I found this mold Lee 2-Cavity Bullet Mold 515-500-F 50-70 Government (515 Diameter) 500 and guys were liking the way these bullets were shooting out of faster twist rates. That was mentioned in a Hornady GP thread.

Thanks for steering me towards some other conicals to try. I'm not sure why I was always running into TC Maxi Balls before when looking for lead bullets. I guess because I'm just not that familiar with conicals unless I have specific names to look for.

@deermanok , thanks for putting a name on my rifle.
The Lyman GP bullet is a flat-point, flat-base bullet with deep grease grooves. It is very different than the Hornady GP, which is a hollow-point, hollow-base bullet with shallow grease grooves. There are MANY factors which influence the way that a cast bullet actually performs. A few of them are:

1. Quality of the casting - voids, surface imperfections, poor roundness, and so forth move the actual center of mass away from the spin axis of the bullet, which results in a random transverse velocity when the bullet exits the barrel. In my experience the factory-cast H GPs are very uniform and completely free of surface defects. I suspect that most user-cast L GPs are less perfect.

2. Loading process - If it takes force to start the bullet down the barrel, the bullet is likely to be deformed, and to wind up misaligned with the barrel. That has the same effects as casting defects above, as well as accuracy issues due to powder gasses escaping more on one side of the bullet than the other as the bullet exits the barrel, and due to aerodynamic effects after the bullet clears the muzzle.

3. Bullet design and dimensions which are a good match to the barrel: A conical bullet which fits the barrel properly is MUCH easier to load straight, and without damage, and provides much better accuracy. There are two basic ways to accomplish this:

The Hornady GPs have a tapered design in which the base driving band is considerably smaller (about .495) than most .50 caliber barrels (about .501), and the driving bands increase in diameter towards the tip of the bullet. That makes it fairly easy to load the HGP straight. The Hornady GP compensates for this with a hollow base, which engages the rifling upon firing. While the Lyman GP's also have a tapered design, their flat bases are about .500 (or a little more if an alloy other than pure lead is used), which makes them harder to start straight in most rifles. Both bullets have forward driving bands which are about .508, which means that after the base is started, considerable force is needed to engrave the rifling into the bullet and push them down to the powder. However, the Hornady bullet's smaller base means that it will at least be fairly well aligned to the barrel at the point where force becomes necessary. I'm guessing that differences in ease of loading and possibly also in quality of casting may account for much of the difference in accuracy reputation between H GPs and L GPs.

Cylindrical bullet designs (all driving bands the same diameter) have to be a really excellent fit for good accuracy. Their driving bands have to be small enough that the bullet can be loaded straight and without deformation, but not so small that the bullet will not engage the rifling and stay on the powder once loaded, and not so small that upon firing, the base will allow too much powder gas to get around the bullet before the force of firing compresses the bullet and thus seals the bore. Thick felt wads often help accuracy because they help with initial sealing, and they protect the base of the bullet against the shock of firing and against gas getting around the base. Bullet-to-barrel fit tolerances for cylindrical designs are .001 or less, and because every barrel is at least somewhat different, it means custom fitting with either a custom mold, or an adjustable sizing die.

Most commercially available full-bore conicals have a tapered design because they are compatible with a wider range of barrels. The No Excuses custom bullet casting company offers its cylindrical bullets in ranges of diameters, and sells "sizer packs" to help a customer decide which diameter is right for his rifle. Unfortunately, the actual diameters of the bullets in the No Excuses sizer pack that I bought were very different than the diameters they were supposed to be. That rendered my sizer pack mostly worthless, and reflects poorly on No Excuses quality control. I suspect that bullets from the Lee .515 mold that you reference above will be quite hard to load in most .50 caliber MLs.
 
Have no idea what you paid but from the pic that is a NICE LOOKING RIFLE. Good buy! The 24” barrel looks quite handy as a “hunter”.


$375 shipped.
Should be here Tuesday. Looking forward, like we all do when getting anything new to us.
 
$375 shipped.
Should be here Tuesday. Looking forward, like we all do when getting anything new to us.
It sure is a nice looking rifle, flintlock i believe. Price paid appears to be fair for it. Once you get it n start shooting we will be hearing of the pros n cons as you work with it, congrats on getting it
 
1-32 twist isn't much different than 1-28.
I read somewhere, I hope some one will help me with this, the faster the twist rate for a given caliber, the tighter the working BP load. In other words, a 1:32 may will allow for a broader load range and still maintain accuracy, whereas with a tighter twist the range is narrower.

As I said, I don't know where I read this, or if it is even accurate, but I am sure there are enough experienced shooters here to know if this is true.

This is only about load (BP propellant) range. I am aware there are many other dynamics taking place, such as barrel frequency and harmonics. BTW, the load range may be due in part, to those two effects, but you can't change the stiffness of your barrel, but you can change the load.
 
Strictly an impulse buy. Someone put it up on another forum for what I deemed as a good price and I jumped on it, knowing full well I'd have to do more than the usual playing around with finding a load for it.
It's a Traditions 50cal, 24" barrel and... 1:32 twist o_O

View attachment 30482

What I've been able to find, which I think is talking about this gun (Deerhunter?), is that it will shoot round balls just fine with a lighter load. And of course conicals just fine.
I've got the RB's to try. I was thinking of trying some TC Maxi balls. Which are quite pricey and come in two weights.
This is where you come in :)

Has anyone played around with a fast twist short barrel, particularly if it's this one, that can give me some intel? I'm not interested in sabots. Just in whether I should go ahead and order a die to cast my own and in one weight if the Maxi Balls are what I should be feeding it. Ideally I'd like something that will shoot cloverleafs off the bench at 50yds and have some punch to it. Just in case I decide to hunt with it.

ETA: I don't have it yet and the previous owner never shot it. I'd like to line something up other than the RB's for my first range session.

Thanks
How did it come by a full length stock of such pretty wood. The only Deerhunter rifles I’ve seen are half stocked and not near as pretty!
 
How did it come by a full length stock of such pretty wood. The only Deerhunter rifles I’ve seen are half stocked and not near as pretty!


Someone above mentioned it was a Tennessee model. I think I thought it was a Deerhunter just based on barrel length and twist.
All I really know is that the person I bought it from said they didn't think it was made anymore.

And yeah, that's pretty wood alright.
 
I saw that myself and thought about buying it as they're discontinued. Nice lightweight Muzzleloader.

That's a Traditions Tennessee Rifle with a 24" barrel and a 1/66" RB twist as stated by the seller. Another member replied he TRIED to sell a 50 he had that was 1-32" but nobody wanted it. The rest of the comments were in response to his and so you may have gotten confused as to the actual barrel twist.

My daughter has one in Caplock. She shoots 50 grains of 3F BP, 490 RB, and .015" pre-lubed patch for target work. Very Accurate!

Good Luck!

Walt

P.S.: If you expected a fast twist barrel and don't want it, let me know.
 
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That's a Traditions Tennessee Rifle with a 24" barrel and a 1/66" RB twist as stated by the seller.

Walt, are you speaking to me?
I'm confused. The seller of this stated the twist and even had a picture of it in their listing. It's a 1:32.
:think:

I wish it was 1:66. Then I wouldn't have to experiment with all these conicals, lol.
 
Walt, are you speaking to me?
I'm confused. The seller of this stated the twist and even had a picture of it in their listing. It's a 1:32.
:think:

I wish it was 1:66. Then I wouldn't have to experiment with all these conicals, lol.
Yes, I was. Is it this one from Texas Gil?

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/traditions-tennessee-rifle.154195/#post-2221998
I've never seen or heard of a Traditions Tennessee rifle with a fast twist and according to David Little at the Gun Works, he hasn't either.

Walt
 
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Don't give up on trying patched round balls in that rifle. My cheap old CVA Stag Horn rifle shoots patched rounds very well from its' 1/32" twist barrel using 70 grains of powder. The rifle has a good scope and i squirrel hunt with it.

Here's Doc White on use of patched round balls and fast twist rifles:

http://whitemuzzleloading.com/round-balls-in-fast-twist-rifles/
 
Don't give up on trying patched round balls in that rifle. My cheap old CVA Stag Horn rifle shoots patched rounds very well from its' 1/32" twist barrel using 70 grains of powder. The rifle has a good scope and i squirrel hunt with it.

Here's Doc White on use of patched round balls and fast twist rifles:

http://whitemuzzleloading.com/round-balls-in-fast-twist-rifles/

Thanks. I'll see how far I can push it.
I'll know more when I see the rifling.
 
That gun you have there is a Traditions Tennessee rifle. I have the same one but in percussion. Mine also has the slow twist 1/66 round ball barrel.
You might have the fast twist 1/32 ?
I would try several different conicals. I have good luck with the Hornady PA conicals, 240 grains. They're not very expensive for target shooting or as a hunting bullet.
I second this, I shot 45cal 240gr XTP’s (with 75gr pyro dex)
out of my renegade in a green 50 cal sabot for years, very accurately too. I started with the conicals. Try both
 
I second this, I shot 45cal 240gr XTP’s (with 75gr pyro dex)
out of my renegade in a green 50 cal sabot for years, very accurately too. I started with the conicals. Try both
I just finished running stability calculations for a wide array of bullets, including a couple of sabots, for 1-28 and 1-48 twists. If you pick a short, flat-point bullet, even a 1-48 twist can stabilize a sabot very effectively. The Hornady .452 300 grain XTP Mag would be a great choice. Here in Montana, sabots are not legal during our new Heritage ML season, (but we can hunt with them during the general weapons season), so check your regulations carefully.
 
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