FFG or FFFg for 50cal Inline?

[Buffalorider73]

I keep seeing different opinions on which powder to use for my CVA 50cal inline. I shoot a 300gr .452 HP and usually shoot BH209 but 777 loose seems to be more locally available and economical. Also, I have 200 CCI Magnum shotshell primers. Do I need to buy the winchester 777 primers to use with 777 powder?

Tripple 7 with regular primers is just fine.
I shoot 65 grains behind 350 gr ftp, shot right through a large doe and split 6" tree behind her at 46 yards. In my Tc Bonecolector

 

[Buffalorider73]

Interested to hear others' opinions on this. I tried a bunch of different combinations of primers, powder volume, projectiles etc... and have never been able to fire 777 without getting a crud ring so bad it's either hard or impossible to full seat a bullet without sending a patch (or two) down the bore after each round. Ideas?

Well the secret is use moderate charges with a heavy bullet, shoot at100 yrds or less you will load and clean up easy.

 

[GM54-120]

Toby Bridges used fffg triple 7 powder in his load experiments for the Hi-lux muzzleloader scope that bears his name...

He has been known to do MANY things the manufacturer does not approve of doing but in his defense.....Hodgdon has 100grV FFFG load data for 50cals. Both Pyro P and Triple7 FFFG so im betting Hodgdon has a far better idea what is safe and what isnt.

 

[Dwayne]

FFG and FFFG cost me the same per lb. As far as speed difference....That is gunna depend on what you are shooting and how much powder you are using. A 50fps gain could be pretty common if talking volume vs volume. Weight vs weight i dont think ive seen a good comparison.
https://hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/muzzleloading_manual_2008.pdf

And do you really think the deer or any animal cares about 50fps when the projectile is traveling at 1500 fps?
Kind of like those who worry about 80 grains vs 100 grains. Go for whatever makes your gun the most accurate.
The speed difference ain't going to make one bit of difference for 99.99 percent of all hunting shots. . .
I guess if you are a longer range shooter that extra speed will make a little difference, but if you are going
to do long shot kills, you are better off with a heavier projectile or a conical with a good BC.

Makes me wonder if shooting for accuracy is being replaced with "How fast can you make it go". Nowadays,
leaving accuracy less important. I can't imagine using Pellets.

 

[user 20307]

Been using 777 FFF in my Knight Disc Elite for years. I like the stuff personally. 95 grains (volume), 300 grain Speer Deep Curl, Remington Cleanbore primer or 105 grains (volume), 300 grain Thompson PTX, Remington Cleanbore primer. Shoot excellent!

 

[GM54-120]

Dwayne like i said a pound cost the same regardless of granulation. If FFFG produces more fps i can use less. Less powder is a shorter powder column too. More usable barrel. This can matter to guys shooting things like the Optima V2 pistol.

Im also curious how you came up with Triple7 FFFG is harder on your rifle?

 

[jlynch75]

Been using 777/fff for years, couldn't find any about two years ago and got 777/ff. I like the way fff measures. Haven't notice any difference in the way it shoots.

 

[Dwayne]

Dwayne like i said a pound cost the same regardless of granulation. If FFFG produces more fps i can use less. Less powder is a shorter powder column too. More usable barrel. This can matter to guys shooting things like the Optima V2 pistol.

Im also curious how you came up with Triple7 FFFG is harder on your rifle?

The comparison of 2f via 3f. ... 3f is a finer grain, which will ignite faster and produce a higher pressure
in the barrel compared to 2f. If the FPS is hardly noticeable, the deer don't care.
Price wise, 3f is more costly around here. 4f is even more. t7 is even more at any F rating.

1. If 2f is cheaper, why not use 2f.
2. 2f doesn't produce as high as pressure as 3f. It may not be that much higher, but why mess with it?
Might as well use 4f as the main charge then. . ..produce more pressure faster and spin that conical out
faster. . using less powder. That does not make it safer. There is a reason why they say 2f for 50 cal and larger, and 3f for 50 cal or less.

It is all on how you look at things.
And yes, shorter barrels are better for 3f. The conical is out usually before full pressure is reached,
and the amount of powder you use will not reach as high pressure as a longer barrel with 100 grains
compared to 30 grains.

 

[GM54-120]

Seems to cost the same to me. Always has anytime i bought it.
https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/category/categoryId/3502https://www.midwayusa.com/black-powder-substitutes/br?cid=23208https://outdoors.natchezss.com/bestsellers/Hodgdon-Powderhttps://www.sportsmans.com/shooting...equipment-supplies/powder-primers/c/cat100011
But the graph from Lyman Ballistic Labs does not support your position. I used 3FG for years and so have people like Doc White.

Who says 2F or 3F?....Give you a hint.....Its aint Hodgdon. They have 3FG load data for 50cals. Its right in the link i posted. Surely the company that actually makes the powder knows more than CVA does. The OP is talking about Triple7 and not real black.

Are you suggesting Hodgdon does not know what they are talking about?
https://hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/muzzleloading_manual_2008.pdf

 

[Chick]

777 is good fire starter, but it will never foul one of my barrels again.

 

[jlynch75]

I find T7 very easy to cleanup but I use #11 caps and clean my guns as soon as I get home from shooting.

 

[45-70]

don't understand why graph was made with subs and black powder using goex 4 ffff

 

[Chick]

I find T7 very easy to cleanup but I use #11 caps and clean my guns as soon as I get home from shooting.

I used it with 209 primers, and had to clean after every shot to get any consistancy. It was the biggest PITA I have ever dealt with. BH209 and I can shoot all day with out cleaning.

There is a reason that you can find 777, Pyrodex and other BP substitutes, while the BH209 is unavailable.

 

[dwm]

I used it with 209 primers, and had to clean after every shot to get any consistancy. It was the biggest PITA I have ever dealt with. BH209 and I can shoot all day with out cleaning.

There is a reason that you can find 777, Pyrodex and other BP substitutes, while the BH209 is unavailable.

I certainly do clean between shots, i hunt on a clean barrel.its all part of the equation, lets my barrel cool between shots, I don’t mind it

 

[jlynch75]

In my area I have no problem finding BH209 (that I never use). I do have a hard time finding T7/fff. However, I just got T7/fff at Sportsman's Warehouse in Rochester, two hundred mile round trip but I got enough T7 for my life time.

 

[45-70]

And do you really think the deer or any animal cares about 50fps when the projectile is traveling at 1500 fps?
Kind of like those who worry about 80 grains vs 100 grains. Go for whatever makes your gun the most accurate.
The speed difference ain't going to make one bit of difference for 99.99 percent of all hunting shots. . .
I guess if you are a longer range shooter that extra speed will make a little difference, but if you are going
to do long shot kills, you are better off with a heavier projectile or a conical with a good BC.

Makes me wonder if shooting for accuracy is being replaced with "How fast can you make it go". Nowadays,
leaving accuracy less important. I can't imagine using Pellets.

been that way for years