First Muzzle Loader Questions - CVA Accura LRX 50. Caliber

[JeffB1961]

Can you explain that a bit more? Is that the threaded channel you screw the breech plug into?

So unscrew that and clean the threads by hand with a 1/8" drill bit/brush? Do you use water or windex on the brush?

Thanks!

this is for modern versions like what you have .
my old 2003 doesn't use a drill bit because the hole is tiny , it just uses the metal pick .

 

[michiganmuzzy]

this is for modern versions like what you have .
my old 2003 doesn't use a drill bit because the hole is tiny , it just uses the metal pick .

Both new and older style breech plugs have similar size holes(flash hole) and the hole leading from the primer to that flash hole(flame channel). The 209 primers leave hard deposits inside that flame channel, more or less depending on load and primer used. That carbon build up in the flame channel is very hard and should be cleaned out occasionally or accuracy will suffer. An 1/8” drill bit is the easiest way to clean it out. Simply twist the bit into the hole by hand and blow out the debris until you have a smooth clear flame channel again. Adapters and bit holders of different types make holding the bit easier, also pliers or vice grips can be used. Dont use a drill motor tho as you can acidentally damage or enlarge the flash hole ruining the breech plug. Many(me too) like to clean that channel after every session, sometimes i’ll clean it between every shot group for consistency.
The flash hole normally doesn’t need to be cleaned as often as the flame channel.
If your accuracy has decreased then you may just need to clean the breech plug out properly to get back to those small groups.

 

[txhunter58]

Bottom line is you are good for now with what you have.

That said, you will be needing quite a few accessories. Here are some:
Patches (need several hundred to start)
Cleaning solution (if you don’t use water)
Powder flask (can choose modern or traditional)
Powder Measurer. Here you will hear a lot of different opinions but with 777 I have always gone with volume. Some weigh each charge. I fill mine with powder, tap it twice to get a little settling, and then cut it off.
range rod (longer than one that comes with your rifle). Just makes it easier when at the range. I like one with a “T” handle
somthing to carry preloaded/ measured powder for follow up shots.
special loading tips for pointed bullets


That will get you started. What have I forgotten?

 

[newmexicomuledeerhunter]

Please watch the Video below

Blackhorn 209: Breech Plug Cleaning - YouTube

Awesome, Thanks!!!

 

[newmexicomuledeerhunter]

And the reason for that is a 209 primer is a mediocre ignition source for BH209. I know what Western says. I tried that. Then I found LRMP ignition and everything changed. IMO 209 primers are a mistake. They have more cons than pros.

Sorry if I missed it. What primers do you use instead of 209's?

 

[newmexicomuledeerhunter]

Both new and older style breech plugs have similar size holes(flash hole) and the hole leading from the primer to that flash hole(flame channel). The 209 primers leave hard deposits inside that flame channel, more or less depending on load and primer used. That carbon build up in the flame channel is very hard and should be cleaned out occasionally or accuracy will suffer. An 1/8” drill bit is the easiest way to clean it out. Simply twist the bit into the hole by hand and blow out the debris until you have a smooth clear flame channel again. Adapters and bit holders of different types make holding the bit easier, also pliers or vice grips can be used. Dont use a drill motor tho as you can acidentally damage or enlarge the flash hole ruining the breech plug. Many(me too) like to clean that channel after every session, sometimes i’ll clean it between every shot group for consistency.
The flash hole normally doesn’t need to be cleaned as often as the flame channel.
If your accuracy has decreased then you may just need to clean the breech plug out properly to get back to those small groups.

Super helpful, thank you!!!

 

[newmexicomuledeerhunter]

Bottom line is you are good for now with what you have.

That said, you will be needing quite a few accessories. Here are some:
Patches (need several hundred to start)
Cleaning solution (if you don’t use water)
Powder flask (can choose modern or traditional)
Powder Measurer. Here you will hear a lot of different opinions but with 777 I have always gone with volume. Some weigh each charge. I fill mine with powder, tap it twice to get a little settling, and then cut it off.
range rod (longer than one that comes with your rifle). Just makes it easier when at the range. I like one with a “T” handle
somthing to carry preloaded/ measured powder for follow up shots.
special loading tips for pointed bullets


That will get you started. What have I forgotten?

Where is the best place to get these accessories? Thinking online since I haven't found much ML stuff in person here.
What size patches do you use for .50 caliber?
I am leaning toward weighing just to be as consistent as possible, but will try both measuring and weighing.
Re: the range rod, this is for cleaning right? Could I use a Dewey rod like I used on my centerfire rifles? Do people use bore guides to protect the bore from damage from the rod?
The tubes to hold powder, what are those called and where to find them?
I will definitely need those loading tips for pointed bullets as that's what I anticipate using for hunting.

Thanks for answering a million questions and providing such helpful suggestions on accessories.

Truly grateful!

 

[Pathfinder60]

Please provide a link or tell the newbie if he can and how he would convert his CVA optima to a LRMP system

Down the road, maybe something to think about. Right now, not so much

Certainly...be happy to. Here is one from Hank's Gun Parts
https://hanksprecisiongunparts.com/p/cva-replacement-plug-for-the-accura-optima-wolfAnd here is the one that I use personally and am very happy with.
https://www.arrowheadrifles.com/product/cva_qrbp/Either would get you where you want to be but as you can see, there offer 2 very different approaches. Decide for yourself which is best for you. Either way you'll find out very soon after switching to LRMP what a difference this ignition source makes to the inside of your breech plug and the inside of your barrel using BH 209 powder. It's astonishing actually.

 

[newmexicomuledeerhunter]

Certainly...be happy to. Here is one from Hank's Gun Parts
https://hanksprecisiongunparts.com/p/cva-replacement-plug-for-the-accura-optima-wolfAnd here is the one that I use personally and am very happy with.
https://www.arrowheadrifles.com/product/cva_qrbp/Either would get you where you want to be but as you can see, there offer 2 very different approaches. Decide for yourself which is best for you. Either way you'll find out very soon after switching to LRMP what a difference this ignition source makes to the inside of your breech plug and the inside of your barrel using BH 209 powder. It's astonishing actually.

Thanks for the video, I will marinate on both different routes. I should probably shoot a bit with the primers I have already have and see how it goes before investing in a new system. I appreciate your advice.

Exactly what large rifle primers do you use?

Thanks!

 

[Pathfinder60]

Sorry if I missed it. What primers do you use instead of 209's?

Large rifle magnum primers. I created a post with 2 links in it with 2 different options to make that conversion. Personally I prefer the Arrowhead design but that's just me. One is a bit more inexpensive than the other but neither come cheap. But for me, it was a real game changer as far as how much cleaner my breech plug stays shot after shot. Seeing is believing.

 

[Pathfinder60]

Thanks for the video, I will marinate on both different routes. I should probably shoot a bit with the primers I have already have and see how it goes before investing in a new system. I appreciate your advice.

Exactly what large rifle primers do you use?

Thanks!

I use CCI no. 250 primers.

 

[ronlaughlin]

Both new and older style breech plugs have similar size holes(flash hole) and the hole leading from the primer to that flash hole(flame channel). The 209 primers leave hard deposits inside that flame channel, more or less depending on load and primer used. That carbon build up in the flame channel is very hard and should be cleaned out occasionally or accuracy will suffer. An 1/8” drill bit is the easiest way to clean it out. Simply twist the bit into the hole by hand and blow out the debris until you have a smooth clear flame channel again. Adapters and bit holders of different types make holding the bit easier,

Actually, the standard breech plugs whether new or old have 3mm flame channels. The 1/8" drill is too big to fit. If one used an 1/8" drill, one would need to use a motor, and would enlarge the flame channel a tad. A 7/64" drill will work, but is a tad too small to completely remove the hard carbon from the flame channel.

The replacement plug made to burn Blackhorn powder does have an 1/8" flame channel, and will allow one to turn the 1/8" drill by hand.

 

[txhunter58]

Interesting concept about LRMP.
Couple of issues:

The gun is primed when you load it, so some safety issues there.

In most areas, you can’t travel in a vehicle with a loaded/ primed gun, so I guess you have to load it when you get to hunting area and unload every time you get back in a vehicle?

For the one modification, you need a wrench to get the primer holder out. Seems tedious for hunting. And I could not find a video showing how to get the arrowhead module out and put another primer module in, but mentions a deprimer or flat screwdriver?

while I think it is a great concept and there could be inventive ways around the issues, I think I will stay with shimming my existing breechplug to prevent blowback. It may not be ideal, but neither is the new system as I see it.

Or am I missing something?

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Actually, the standard breech plugs whether new or old have 3mm flame channels. The 1/8" drill is too big to fit. If one used an 1/8" drill, one would need to use a motor, and would enlarge the flame channel a tad. A 7/64" drill will work, but is a tad too small to completely remove the hard carbon from the flame channel.

The replacement plug made to burn Blackhorn powder does have an 1/8" flame channel, and will allow one to turn the 1/8" drill by hand.

That’s right, ive had 1/8” channels with ventliner, so long that i forgot they were smaller in the original plugs.

 

[deermanok]

For cleaning patches, I use any old material I can get. For example; I found a yard of white denim at Walmart a while back. It was super marked down because it was dirty.
I cut small squares, about 2×2 inches or so. I don't measure, just go by eye.

 

[txhunter58]

Sorry, but I think that Path has made some good contributions since his first comment. As they say, it takes 2 to tango, and you are continuing the online bickering. Be adults and disagree instead of sounding like you are on a Jr high playground. Because that what this has deteriorated to. Not helpful to Newmexicos questions.

 

[ronlaughlin]

while I think it is a great concept and there could be inventive ways around the issues, I think I will stay with shimming my existing breechplug to prevent blowback. It may not be ideal, but neither is the new system as I see it.

If you are shooting CVA rifles, wouldn't it be effective to shim the firing pin bushing to achieve a primer crush, and preventing blowback?

 

[BigBoresmokepole]

If you are shooting CVA rifles, wouldn't it be effective to shim the firing pin bushing to achieve a primer crush, and preventing blowback?

That is what is needed if you had blowback in your firing pin area. I had to shim mine .04 to get..02 crush fit no more blow back. Got the shim pack from cva. I also noticed the crud ring is no longer a issue and the groups are tighter.

 

[mnoland30]

I lick a patch and run it down the barrel between shots with 777. Then turn it over and run it down again. Keeps the barrel nice and clean.

 

[txhunter58]

Path, I am curious how you handle hauling such a rifle in a vehicle?

I have a cabin in Colorado, so many days I go back to the cabin sometime in the middle of the day, and then again in the evening. Even when we don’t do back to base during the day, we can move to a different area and so traveling with a gun in the truck is a common necessity.

I don’t see how that could be done legally without totally unloading the gun each time. I am not trying to start an argument, the concept intrigues me, and I am really curious.