- Joined
- Jan 5, 2006
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First off I want to thank those of you on this board for the information you share with us smokeless newbies. You guys are invaluable to those of us that are going smoke-free for the first time.
Sorry I don't have any pics. We are still in the dark ages in that we don't own a digital camera...
So, I'll just give some info on my set up, on the loads I shot, and the results.
My set up:
10ML-II Stainless/Laminate
Bushnell Elite 4200 3x9x40
Talley LW Mounts (Low)
RW Ventliner
Fed 209A Primer
Old Hoppes orange adjustable front rest with suede front and rear bags. Shooting off a sturdy picnic table. Letting the gun free-recoil except where noted.
Day 1: 3/17/07 Temp low-mid 30's, steady breeze right to left:
I bore sighted the gun at 25 yds and shot two of the supplied 250 XTP & MMP sabots with 42g of IMR SR4759. Both shots were touching about 2.5" low and 1" left. I adjusted the scope and the 3rd shot was at 2 o'clock on the edge of the 1" bull so I moved out to 100 yds. I shot the last two of the above combo and they were about 1.5" apart 2" high and 1.5" right of the bull. The 250 XTP/MMP combo loaded pretty snug and had very little recoil. Less than my MK85 with a 250gr bullet and 100gr of 777. I was happy so far so I started to play around. Here are the loads I shot in order:
300 XTP / MMP Short / 42g 4759:
Loaded extremely hard. I really had to grunt to get them seated. Four shots grouped at just under 2" about 1" low and an 1" right.
300 XTP / Harvester HP Sabot / 43g 4759:
Loaded a little easier than the MMP combo. To me it seemed like a good fit. It was tight but I didn't have to bust a gut getting it down the barrel.
Six shots grouped at about 2" again about 1" low and 1" right.
250 SST / Harvester / 42g 4759:
I shot my first ever sub 1" group with a muzzleloader with this combo. First two shots touched and the third was just a little high and left. Group measured .75" center to center about 3" high and 1" right of center. This bullet/sabot combo loaded what seemed about right to me. It was stiff but not overly so. Getting happier by the minute.
250 SST / Harvester / 43g 4759:
I had six more 43g loads left so I wanted to shoot two three shot groups with this load. I yanked one shot in each group, (2nd shot both times), and turned what would have been 1" groups into 2" groups. All six still hit in about a 3" circle centered about 2" high and 1" right. I didn't change targets from the group above. Four of these six shot went into about an inch group, (just not consecutive shots), nearly on top of the previous 250SST / 42g 4759 group. These last two loads really show promise.
At this time I was curious about the condition of the barrel and if the breech plug was staying tight since I've heard that the breech plug can back out on occasion. I really torqued the breech plug down before I shot so I know it started out tight. I ran one dry patch down the bore twice (one stroke each side of the patch) and there was just a light coating of powder residue. I pulled the bolt, and checked the plug. It was just as tight as it was when I started. I cranked it back down and kept shooting.
300 XTP / Harvester / 58g N120:
First three shots grouped at 1.5", surrounding the bull. I could tell the difference in recoil right away between the 43g 4759 and the 58g N120. It was definately more stout. My dad was spotting for me and looking over my shoulder the whole time and I could tell he wanted to pull the trigger. I loaded up twice for him and his two shots were about 3" apart. One at 9 o'clock about 1/2" left of the bull and one at 12 o'clock 2.5" high. He and I never shoot the same with the same gun. He commented that he loved the trigger and that the recoil was similar to his old reliable 16ga Winchester Model 12 slug gun. I shot one more with this combo and hit about an inch high and right of the bull.
300 XTP / Harvester / 60g N120.
Similar results as above. I didn't change targets from the above group. Three shots gouped right at 1" just high and right of the bull. Combined with the last group all six shots were in about a 2" group. The recoil was a little stiffer than th 58g N120. I don't think I'd want to shoot 60g N120 and a 300gr bullet all day without a good recoil pad.
275 Barnes XPB / Harvester / 58g N120
I was really anxious to see how this bullet would shoot. It loaded easy, (too easy as I would find out the next day). 58g of N120 did not group at all. I shot 5 times and all hit about 2" to the right of the bull but strung vertically about 5" with no consistency. Needless to say I was not impressed.
275 Barnes XPB / Harvester / 60gr N120
First three shots were 3.5" high, 2.5" to the right and grouped just under an inch (15/16"" to be exact). I had not touched the adjustment on my scope since the initial sight in at 25 yds so I moved it 10 clicks to the left. All be darn if my next three shot group didn't move about 2.5" to the left and about a 1/2" higher than the last group This group was the best of the day and actually my best group with any gun ever save a .22LR @ 25 yds. Three shots made one oblong hole. Center to center measurement was .375" right at 12 o'clock about 4" high. First two were touching side by side and the 3rd shot hit right in the middle. I looked up at my dad and he just smiled and shook his head. He had just bought a spotting scope so we were playing with that for the first time too. I had 3 more loads left so I moved the scope down 4 clicks. Similar to the first group. Shots 1 & 2 were touching. For the 3rd shot I adjusted the scope to 3x, (had been using 9x for all previous shots). Wanted to prove to my dad that a good variable shouldn't change POI if you change mag. Third shot hit just right of the previous two. Again this group was just under 1" and at 12 o'clock and 3" high. Good way to end the day.
After 47 shots I couldn't be happier. I had shot 5 legitimate 1" and under 3 shot groups with three different loads and a fourth load (250SST/43g 4759) that was promising. As I said before I had never shot a 1" group with a muzzleloader at 100yds. I had three loads that I could have gone hunting with that night and been totally confident. I had never shot that many times or for that long a session before so I was pooped and a little sore. It was cool that day so I really didn't wait at all between shots. Maybe 5 mintues tops. As fast as I was shooting I could never feel any warmth from the barrel. It took about five hours total. I cleaned the gun and serviced the breech plug. I was surprised how much carbon build up there was in the plug.
Day 2: 3/18/07 Temp mid 30's, light breeze quarting to from the right
I was anxious to try the 275XPB / 60g N120 combo from a clean bore and breech plug to see how it would shoot. I fired two primers and went to work. I had six 60g N120 load loaded up and set out. First shot hit 2" high and 2" right. Second shot hit 2" low and 1" to the right. Third shot hit 3" high and dead center. Fourth shot hit about an inch low and right of the 3rd shot. So I'm thinking, ok...this gun likes a fouled barrel. Fifth shot went "POP." Mis-fire. My dad said he saw something come out of the barrel and fall about 10 feet out. I stuck the ramrod down the bore...nothing. I looked at the bench where I had my 6 powder charges sitting and there were five empties and one left so I know I dumped powder down the barrel. I'm really scratching my head at this point. We searched the ground in front of the bench and found a sabot that was in almost new condition. You could barely see the engraving from the rifling. Never found the bullet. As I said the previous day the 275XPB/Harvester combo loaded easier than any other combo. They were the last combo I shot that day so they were shot with a fouled barrel and plug and shot awesome. In a clean barrel these loaded very easy, even with one hand. I pulled and inspected breech plug and there seemed to be no issues there. So I loaded another 60g N120 charge and my last 275XPB in a MMP HP12. Nice tight fit. Similar to the 250SST/Harvester combo. Pulled the trigger and the last shot hit 2.5" high at 12 o'clock. Lesson learned: .451 bullet = MMP sabot in my gun.
300 XTP / Harvester / 58g N120
This combo loaded tight just like it did the day before. This again kind of confirmed my thinking that the .451 bullet / Harvester combo should be avoided. Three shots grouped about 1" just at the top and a little right of the bull. I changed my set up for the next group. I moved the front rest and rear bag out of the way and stacked up three boat cushions to shoot off of. I used the "hard-hold" method this time. My left hand was resting on the top cushion and I held the gun firm but night tight. This is how I always shoot my slug gun and would more closely resemble field shooting conditions with a rest over the top of a tree limb or a shooting bar in a tree stand. Three shots grouped about 1.5" just at the bottom of the bull.
300 SW / Harvester / 58g N120
I'm getting sore at this point. My dad shoots 300g Shockwaves and 100gr T7 out of his Omega so he asked me to try these out of the Savage. I set the rest and bags back up and shot a 1/2" 3 shot group about 1" above the bull. These loaded pretty tight. Again I ended the day on a positive note.
Since this gun seems to like a fouled bore and likely a fouled breech plug all I did was pull the plug and vent liner, applied anti-seize since I'd had the plug out earlier when I had the mis-fire, and put everything back together and put the gun away.
So...61 shots fired over two days. Seven groups at an inch or less with 4 different load combos. Sorry for such a long post and again sorry for no pics. To say I'm impressed with this gun is an understatement!
Chris
Sorry I don't have any pics. We are still in the dark ages in that we don't own a digital camera...
So, I'll just give some info on my set up, on the loads I shot, and the results.My set up:
10ML-II Stainless/Laminate
Bushnell Elite 4200 3x9x40
Talley LW Mounts (Low)
RW Ventliner
Fed 209A Primer
Old Hoppes orange adjustable front rest with suede front and rear bags. Shooting off a sturdy picnic table. Letting the gun free-recoil except where noted.
Day 1: 3/17/07 Temp low-mid 30's, steady breeze right to left:
I bore sighted the gun at 25 yds and shot two of the supplied 250 XTP & MMP sabots with 42g of IMR SR4759. Both shots were touching about 2.5" low and 1" left. I adjusted the scope and the 3rd shot was at 2 o'clock on the edge of the 1" bull so I moved out to 100 yds. I shot the last two of the above combo and they were about 1.5" apart 2" high and 1.5" right of the bull. The 250 XTP/MMP combo loaded pretty snug and had very little recoil. Less than my MK85 with a 250gr bullet and 100gr of 777. I was happy so far so I started to play around. Here are the loads I shot in order:
300 XTP / MMP Short / 42g 4759:
Loaded extremely hard. I really had to grunt to get them seated. Four shots grouped at just under 2" about 1" low and an 1" right.
300 XTP / Harvester HP Sabot / 43g 4759:
Loaded a little easier than the MMP combo. To me it seemed like a good fit. It was tight but I didn't have to bust a gut getting it down the barrel.
Six shots grouped at about 2" again about 1" low and 1" right.
250 SST / Harvester / 42g 4759:
I shot my first ever sub 1" group with a muzzleloader with this combo. First two shots touched and the third was just a little high and left. Group measured .75" center to center about 3" high and 1" right of center. This bullet/sabot combo loaded what seemed about right to me. It was stiff but not overly so. Getting happier by the minute.
250 SST / Harvester / 43g 4759:
I had six more 43g loads left so I wanted to shoot two three shot groups with this load. I yanked one shot in each group, (2nd shot both times), and turned what would have been 1" groups into 2" groups. All six still hit in about a 3" circle centered about 2" high and 1" right. I didn't change targets from the group above. Four of these six shot went into about an inch group, (just not consecutive shots), nearly on top of the previous 250SST / 42g 4759 group. These last two loads really show promise.
At this time I was curious about the condition of the barrel and if the breech plug was staying tight since I've heard that the breech plug can back out on occasion. I really torqued the breech plug down before I shot so I know it started out tight. I ran one dry patch down the bore twice (one stroke each side of the patch) and there was just a light coating of powder residue. I pulled the bolt, and checked the plug. It was just as tight as it was when I started. I cranked it back down and kept shooting.
300 XTP / Harvester / 58g N120:
First three shots grouped at 1.5", surrounding the bull. I could tell the difference in recoil right away between the 43g 4759 and the 58g N120. It was definately more stout. My dad was spotting for me and looking over my shoulder the whole time and I could tell he wanted to pull the trigger. I loaded up twice for him and his two shots were about 3" apart. One at 9 o'clock about 1/2" left of the bull and one at 12 o'clock 2.5" high. He and I never shoot the same with the same gun. He commented that he loved the trigger and that the recoil was similar to his old reliable 16ga Winchester Model 12 slug gun. I shot one more with this combo and hit about an inch high and right of the bull.
300 XTP / Harvester / 60g N120.
Similar results as above. I didn't change targets from the above group. Three shots gouped right at 1" just high and right of the bull. Combined with the last group all six shots were in about a 2" group. The recoil was a little stiffer than th 58g N120. I don't think I'd want to shoot 60g N120 and a 300gr bullet all day without a good recoil pad.
275 Barnes XPB / Harvester / 58g N120
I was really anxious to see how this bullet would shoot. It loaded easy, (too easy as I would find out the next day). 58g of N120 did not group at all. I shot 5 times and all hit about 2" to the right of the bull but strung vertically about 5" with no consistency. Needless to say I was not impressed.
275 Barnes XPB / Harvester / 60gr N120
First three shots were 3.5" high, 2.5" to the right and grouped just under an inch (15/16"" to be exact). I had not touched the adjustment on my scope since the initial sight in at 25 yds so I moved it 10 clicks to the left. All be darn if my next three shot group didn't move about 2.5" to the left and about a 1/2" higher than the last group This group was the best of the day and actually my best group with any gun ever save a .22LR @ 25 yds. Three shots made one oblong hole. Center to center measurement was .375" right at 12 o'clock about 4" high. First two were touching side by side and the 3rd shot hit right in the middle. I looked up at my dad and he just smiled and shook his head. He had just bought a spotting scope so we were playing with that for the first time too. I had 3 more loads left so I moved the scope down 4 clicks. Similar to the first group. Shots 1 & 2 were touching. For the 3rd shot I adjusted the scope to 3x, (had been using 9x for all previous shots). Wanted to prove to my dad that a good variable shouldn't change POI if you change mag. Third shot hit just right of the previous two. Again this group was just under 1" and at 12 o'clock and 3" high. Good way to end the day.
After 47 shots I couldn't be happier. I had shot 5 legitimate 1" and under 3 shot groups with three different loads and a fourth load (250SST/43g 4759) that was promising. As I said before I had never shot a 1" group with a muzzleloader at 100yds. I had three loads that I could have gone hunting with that night and been totally confident. I had never shot that many times or for that long a session before so I was pooped and a little sore. It was cool that day so I really didn't wait at all between shots. Maybe 5 mintues tops. As fast as I was shooting I could never feel any warmth from the barrel. It took about five hours total. I cleaned the gun and serviced the breech plug. I was surprised how much carbon build up there was in the plug.
Day 2: 3/18/07 Temp mid 30's, light breeze quarting to from the right
I was anxious to try the 275XPB / 60g N120 combo from a clean bore and breech plug to see how it would shoot. I fired two primers and went to work. I had six 60g N120 load loaded up and set out. First shot hit 2" high and 2" right. Second shot hit 2" low and 1" to the right. Third shot hit 3" high and dead center. Fourth shot hit about an inch low and right of the 3rd shot. So I'm thinking, ok...this gun likes a fouled barrel. Fifth shot went "POP." Mis-fire. My dad said he saw something come out of the barrel and fall about 10 feet out. I stuck the ramrod down the bore...nothing. I looked at the bench where I had my 6 powder charges sitting and there were five empties and one left so I know I dumped powder down the barrel. I'm really scratching my head at this point. We searched the ground in front of the bench and found a sabot that was in almost new condition. You could barely see the engraving from the rifling. Never found the bullet. As I said the previous day the 275XPB/Harvester combo loaded easier than any other combo. They were the last combo I shot that day so they were shot with a fouled barrel and plug and shot awesome. In a clean barrel these loaded very easy, even with one hand. I pulled and inspected breech plug and there seemed to be no issues there. So I loaded another 60g N120 charge and my last 275XPB in a MMP HP12. Nice tight fit. Similar to the 250SST/Harvester combo. Pulled the trigger and the last shot hit 2.5" high at 12 o'clock. Lesson learned: .451 bullet = MMP sabot in my gun.
300 XTP / Harvester / 58g N120
This combo loaded tight just like it did the day before. This again kind of confirmed my thinking that the .451 bullet / Harvester combo should be avoided. Three shots grouped about 1" just at the top and a little right of the bull. I changed my set up for the next group. I moved the front rest and rear bag out of the way and stacked up three boat cushions to shoot off of. I used the "hard-hold" method this time. My left hand was resting on the top cushion and I held the gun firm but night tight. This is how I always shoot my slug gun and would more closely resemble field shooting conditions with a rest over the top of a tree limb or a shooting bar in a tree stand. Three shots grouped about 1.5" just at the bottom of the bull.
300 SW / Harvester / 58g N120
I'm getting sore at this point. My dad shoots 300g Shockwaves and 100gr T7 out of his Omega so he asked me to try these out of the Savage. I set the rest and bags back up and shot a 1/2" 3 shot group about 1" above the bull. These loaded pretty tight. Again I ended the day on a positive note.
Since this gun seems to like a fouled bore and likely a fouled breech plug all I did was pull the plug and vent liner, applied anti-seize since I'd had the plug out earlier when I had the mis-fire, and put everything back together and put the gun away.
So...61 shots fired over two days. Seven groups at an inch or less with 4 different load combos. Sorry for such a long post and again sorry for no pics. To say I'm impressed with this gun is an understatement!
Chris
It sounds like you could end up with quite a few "choice hunting loads".
