Fist Time Out w/ New Optima Elite

[marshall9779]

Got to the range Sat. after getting my new CVA Optima Elite. I got it on the paper at 50yds and got it shooting 2" high. I was using 90gr of Shockey's gold with 200gr T/C SW's. I went to 100 yds and the elevation was dead on. My first three shot group at 100 yds was 1 1/4". This was also just using a jacket stuffed pack as a rest. I have to say that I was pleased. I was spit swabbing after every shot only because the Shockwaves were really tight to load in this barrel. I then tried 4 shots with 100gr Shockey's and the group was more than twice than w/ 90gr. I was rushing a little to get done, but I think right now 90gr is money. The gun shot great and cleaned up easy. I used CVA's bore blaster foam, let it soak for an hour. Ran two dry patches and then 2 patches with windex followed by a final dry and was squeky clean. Ran some hot water through the barel and then 1 patch of bore butter. I will post a pick when i get a chance to get the camera out of my wifes car.

 

[frontier gander]

Congrats on a fine shooting rifle!

 

[MLKeith]

Be careful using hot water followed by bore butter. I would run an alcohol patch between to get all moisture out. Some have reported rust forming under bore butter if there is any moisture when it is applied. Personally I will not use the stuff for anything other than bullet lube.

 

[Les Staley]

bore butter

Likewise what MLkieth said.. I have always used a good gun oil after getting 'em squeaky clean, and have three flintlocks I built back in 1987, 88 that are just like new inside.. I use wonderlube on the round ball patches, and when I clean, I lube the bore with good gun oil.. HTH.. Les

 

[marshall9779]

I did run a dry patch after the hot water. I will check tonight though and make sure it's not rusting.

 

[MLKeith]

Just to simplify what has already been said; Bore Butter is more of a coating and lube than a rust preventative. If any moisture gets trapped between the barrel and the coating it will rust. I hate to see a great rifle get any rust due to this situation. If I had the rifle I would clean out all the Bore Butter and run several patches with a good rust preventative like Sheath or Ballistol or Rem Oil (although for anything other than barrel protection I do not like Rem Oil as it gets gummy when mixed with powder residue on my centerfire pistols -another situation sorry). For those that have used BB in the past with good results, fine but there have been other bad results. Barrel has to be completely clean and dry for the coating to protect it.

 

[meateater]

New Optima Elite

Those new Optimas are very accurate. I have an elite also and have it sighted in with 110 GRN BH209 and a 300 GRN Barnes Expander with consistent sub 1.5 in groups at 100 yards. Love that BH powder fired 25 shots at the range the other day without swabbing and the last sabot went down as easy as the first and the groups remained consistent. I concur with what others have stated above, never use hot water and then seal with bore butter you are asking for some serious corrosion issues within that barrel. Personnaly I would chunk the bore butter and just use a good brand of gun oil. Glad to hear that you are happy with your gun.

 

[MLKeith]

Re: New Optima Elite

Those new Optimas are very accurate. I have an elite also and have it sighted in with 110 GRN BH209 and a 300 GRN Barnes Expander with consistent sub 1.5 in groups at 100 yards. Love that BH powder

You may be over the suggested maximum load. I just emailed BPI about maximum loads since the manual is a little sketchy and they returned the following. 150gr. with pellets and 100gr. loose powder. The BH209 is a fairly high output powder that probably should be limited to 100gr. or even less with a 300gr. bullet. I also feel that the rifle is probably just as safe as any other but that is their reply. I have not shot mine as yet. I only mention this in passing and do not intend to get into another long debate.

 

[sabotloader]

marshall9779

As others have already suggested... if you are using BB - Do make sure the bore is completely dry. I use compressed air blown through the bore to help insure this. I have also switched from BB to TC newer T17 Muzzleloading Bore Seasoning Patch it use Natural lube 1000. I hate that statement "BORE SEASONING" because to many people think of a cast iron frying pan... but either of those two products if applied in what I think is the correct method will reduce fouling.

When you patch BB or a T17 patch in the bore make sure the bore is warm (I use a HOT barrel) and DRY - then as it cools with a dry patch take as much of the loose non-absorbed remains back out of the bore. When completed do not trust either product for long term protection - use a quality bore oil for that purpose.

Powder max for CVA - I guess I remain a little bit purplexed at the the 100 grain loose max load restrictions. I feel the new CVA's are of the quality to handle greater loads - I do not understand the reasoning. The other point as MLKieth brought up - if they allow 150 grain pellet loads - if you were to shoot T7, BH, or even Swiss you would have to reduce from the 100 grains by 10-15% to be at the same pressure as 150 grain pellet loads. Even 150 grain pellet load of T7 pellets is not equal to 150 grains of T7 it is equal to 100 grains of BP or Pryro....

Liability is huge today - so it is always better to be safe than sorry...

Have fun with that new gun...

 

[Lee 9]

sabotloader
I think that the 100gr limit has to do with the breach plug problem rather than the barrel. Lee

 

[sabotloader]

Lee 9

That is an interesting thought.... have read/seen anything specific.

FG has said that you can not burn more than 100 grains of loose in a 26/28" barrel and I assumed he was getting that from CVA - so I guessed their (CVA) reasoning on the limit was it was a waste...

 

[meateater]

New Elite

MLKeith - Thanks for posting the information that Western Powder emailed you. I was using the data that they have posted on their website under Loading Data. They list the ballistics of the Barnes 300 grn bullet with volumteric units of BH209 up to 120 Grns, so naturally I assumed that 110 would be a safe load. Like Sabotloader I too get somewhat perplexed by all these different equations for loose to pellets. I'm also perplexed that the manufacturer would post one thing on their website and email out other information that is different. While out at the range last week I worked up loads of BH in 90, 100 & 110. They all worked very well with the 90 yielding groups at 100 yds of 2.5 inches and those groups tighened up to about 1.5 inches at 110. Safety is my biggest concern and this conflicting info will definitely have me reducing the load. Does anyone else have any information in regards to appropriate conversions for BH. Thanks.

 

[Swampman]

Re: New Elite

Safety is my biggest concern and this conflicting info will definitely have me reducing the load.

I'm very glad, I always kept my CVA max loads at 80 grains of 3F Goex. You can't be too careful.

 

[frontier gander]

Lee 9
I assumed he was getting that from CVA - so I guessed their (CVA) reasoning on the limit was it was a waste...

thats correct.

 

[marshall9779]

Re: New Elite

MLKeith - Thanks for posting the information that Western Powder emailed you. I was using the data that they have posted on their website under Loading Data. They list the ballistics of the Barnes 300 grn bullet with volumteric units of BH209 up to 120 Grns, so naturally I assumed that 110 would be a safe load. Like Sabotloader I too get somewhat perplexed by all these different equations for loose to pellets. I'm also perplexed that the manufacturer would post one thing on their website and email out other information that is different. While out at the range last week I worked up loads of BH in 90, 100 & 110. They all worked very well with the 90 yielding groups at 100 yds of 2.5 inches and those groups tighened up to about 1.5 inches at 110. Safety is my biggest concern and this conflicting info will definitely have me reducing the load. Does anyone else have any information in regards to appropriate conversions for BH. Thanks.

I would just go by the max volumetric charge as stated by the gun manufacturer. Just because BH has 120gr listed with a certain bullet, doesn't mean that 120gr is safe for you gun. I had the exact same question as I have a Optima Elite. I was thinking about trying 110gr but have now reconcidered. CVA syas nothing about different powder strenghts, so I am just going to stick with the 100 gr max loose powder no matter what powder I end up trying. Mine didn't even like 100gr of Shockey's when i shot the gun for the first time this past Sat. 90 gr worked great. I may try sub bases and see if that will tighten up the 100gr charge.

 

[frontier gander]

[email protected] for questions about powder charges and such.

 

[sabotloader]

frontier gander

Lee 9
I assumed he was getting that from CVA - so I guessed their (CVA) reasoning on the limit was it was a waste...

FG
thats correct.

But it is not correct.... several guns can/are burning more than 100 grains very effectively. So if you are into believing that jibberish - you are wrong.

If you have a chrono do the testing yourself... There are significant velocity increases beyond 100 grains with with powders like T7 - BH - and even Swiss BP.

 

[frontier gander]

frontier gander

Lee 9
I assumed he was getting that from CVA - so I guessed their (CVA) reasoning on the limit was it was a waste...

FG
thats correct.

But it is not correct.... several guns can/are burning more than 100 grains very effectively. So if you are into believing that jibberish - you are wrong.

If you have a chrono do the testing yourself... There are significant velocity increases beyond 100 grains with with powders like T7 - BH - and even Swiss BP.

You shoot what ever your heart desires. My inlines shoot best with 80 to 90gr pyrodex rs or pyro p.

Its my traditional sidelocks that are the powder hogs that want 100-110. But those have 32"+ barrels.

I've started fires with just 40gr pyrodex P out of my brothers cva hawken and started the other with 110gr goex 2f with that great plains rifle i had.

 

[sabotloader]

frontier gander

Good for your guns... guess mine are better than yours...

What works for you is fine, but what you do and/or prescribe should not be the limits of others or for you making excuses for CVA.

My point is that a modern barrel is capable of burning charges greater than 100 grains very effectively and unless there is a safety concern by CVA there is no need to limit a modern ML to 100 grains. So for you to say that it is limited because that is all it can burn - you are WRONG...

 

[Swampman]

frontier gander

Good for your guns... guess mine are better than yours...

What works for you is fine, but what you do and/or prescribe should not be the limits of others or for you making exuses for CVA.

My point is that a modern barrel is capable of burning charges greater than 100 grains very effectively and unless there is a safety concern by CVA there is no need to limit a modern ML to 100 grains. So for you to say that it is limited because that is all it can burn - you are WRONG...

I'm wondering if the cracked breechplugs are being caused by charges in excess of 100 grains of loose powder?