Accuracy or Velocity? Wisdom Requested.

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That should be fine . me I would practice from 50yds to 150 max. and see the results and there you will find what's best for you . Good luck & good shooting !
 
At 100 yds hit you're target about 11/2 in. high & you're PBR should be good for 150 yds ,if you what to shoot that far. Me thats my limit , thats me , but you're choice ! Hope this helps .
 
Denny Worrall said:
At 100 yds hit you're target about 11/2 in. high & you're PBR should be good for 150 yds ,if you what to shoot that far. Me thats my limit , thats me , but you're choice ! Hope this helps .
Click to expand...
I am keeping my circle 4 inches vs. 6. I just think that's a little too much for error on a smaller deer.
 
Interesting accuracy-change issue, USAF Ret. I am assuming your are still shooting at 50 yds. Sure makes groups look great, but if you plan hunting shots from 50-150 and are wanting a clean kill, I sure would be shooting at 100 yds rather than 50. Also, wind plays hell with ML bullets in a great many instances, and ballistic coefficient is almost meaningless, to best of my knowledge, at ordinary ML velocities and shooting less than 200 yds. So a number of bullets will give good accuracy for deer to 150 without paying an arm and a leg for them.

If you hadn't changed breech plugs then I would have pointed you right there, and if the second plug was new or had had its touchhole gently cleaned out and it was still about .032 to .034 D. , you should should have been good to go in that department. But if both breechplugs had had their 1/8" D. initial ignition hole cleaned out but not the critical touchhole portion, then I'd sure give a look at that parameter. I've written a good bit about this issue elsewhere on this forum, and how a dedicated BH 209 breecplug -- shortened and frontally cupped is the perfect thing for shooting BH.

But yes, try a different scope first and don't assume that's the problem and buy one right off the bat. Reasons: a bit of left-right wind may have picked up as you were shooting and if not using wind flags, especially at the muzzle, then bingo- hits going to the right. And if meanwhile your touchhole was fouling out you might very well get higher hits at 50, and that's because poorer ignition of your BH 209, or other powder too, means lessened velocity. That equates to longer barrel-time for your bullet, and since muzzle is rising already due to recoil phase the bullet actually can hit higher at 50 yds.. So your bullet actually hits higher at 50 yet likely lower by the time it reaches 100, compared to the prior shooting with a perfect touchhole -- when velocity was topnotch.

Yes, esoterica of shooting here, but MLs magnify problems seen in cartridge shooting, or have unique problems of their own.

Did you try adjusting your scope, first vertically and next horizontally, giving the adjustment area a couple of hand whacks after each adjustment just in case the mechanism was getting cranky ( a good practice anyway!)

Aloha, Ka'imiloa
 
Ka'imiloa said:
Interesting accuracy-change issue, USAF Ret. I am assuming your are still shooting at 50 yds. Sure makes groups look great, but if you plan hunting shots from 50-150 and are wanting a clean kill, I sure would be shooting at 100 yds rather than 50. Also, wind plays hell with ML bullets in a great many instances, and ballistic coefficient is almost meaningless, to best of my knowledge, at ordinary ML velocities and shooting less than 200 yds. So a number of bullets will give good accuracy for deer to 150 without paying an arm and a leg for them.

If you hadn't changed breech plugs then I would have pointed you right there, and if the second plug was new or had had its touchhole gently cleaned out and it was still about .032 to .034 D. , you should should have been good to go in that department. But if both breechplugs had had their 1/8" D. initial ignition hole cleaned out but not the critical touchhole portion, then I'd sure give a look at that parameter. I've written a good bit about this issue elsewhere on this forum, and how a dedicated BH 209 breecplug -- shortened and frontally cupped is the perfect thing for shooting BH.

But yes, try a different scope first and don't assume that's the problem and buy one right off the bat. Reasons: a bit of left-right wind may have picked up as you were shooting and if not using wind flags, especially at the muzzle, then bingo- hits going to the right. And if meanwhile your touchhole was fouling out you might very well get higher hits at 50, and that's because poorer ignition of your BH 209, or other powder too, means lessened velocity. That equates to longer barrel-time for your bullet, and since muzzle is rising already due to recoil phase the bullet actually can hit higher at 50 yds.. So your bullet actually hits higher at 50 yet likely lower by the time it reaches 100, compared to the prior shooting with a perfect touchhole -- when velocity was topnotch.

Yes, esoterica of shooting here, but MLs magnify problems seen in cartridge shooting, or have unique problems of their own.

Did you try adjusting your scope, first vertically and next horizontally, giving the adjustment area a couple of hand whacks after each adjustment just in case the mechanism was getting cranky ( a good practice anyway!)

Aloha, Ka'imiloa
Click to expand...
I was shooting was at 100 yards. 50 yards was never mentioned, so I am not sure where that came from. The breechplug i replaced was beand new and provided the same results as the one I removed. Also, the rifle was cleaned multiple times toward the last 4-5 rounds and printing eratically to the top right, as shown in the picture and shooting analysis I provided. There are burms on both sides and the back of the range. Wind was minimal.

I am a project manager for a living. Part of risk, issue and quality analysis is doing an Ishikawa Diagram. With your knowledge, I am sure you know how to use one. If you are not, it is called a fishbone diagram in which all possible issues are listed and one by one they are gone through and either kept or eliminated based on likelihood utilizing quantitative and qualitative measurement. Part of this process is to engage Subject Matter Experts. These SMEs are utilized based on experience to help eliminate possible drivers of the issue. That is what I did by engaging inputs on this thread after my analysis was complete.

Additionally, the manager has to assess the Cost of Quality. Something you must be familiar with as well. This is when the troubleshooting becomes more expensive than the issue itself. So, does the manager burn up materials that are expensive and hard to get when the project is on a timeline that can't be missed (or the project will fail) or does the manager spend the funds on the most likely driver of the issue? It is the lower risk choice. The other choice is to use up all materials in which, I as the manager, would be unable to complete the project.

The project is to hunt on Wednesday. The range is closed from Monday to Thursday. I have less than 1/2 of a container of powder and 13 projectiles left. None are in stock nearby and if I use them all up, I miss a week of hunting waiting on shipping and getting back to the range to shoot more. Not to mention the cost of shipping and HAZMAT fees will come close to what the scope costs.

So, I conducted a root cause analysis on the range to eliminate possible issues. Once I checked everything and consulted with SMEs, the overall concensus was that the scope was busted. So, I chose to go the route of the most likely issue. Could it not be the scope? Sure. But it is a reasonable chance to take based on anayisis and input to be able to make it hunting Wednesday.

As a Note - While newer to black powder, I have over 45 years of experience with firearms. I reload. I shoot several times each week on different platforms of weapons. I also hold a Navy marksmanship ribbon for the the M16 and M9. So, I am not a novice. But, I am smart enough to ask about what I may have missed.

Thank you for your input.
 
retrieverman said:
I’ll take accuracy over velocity every day and twice on Sunday. :lewis:
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If you're keeping shots under 200 yards, another thought might be to use a little lighter bullet. In my Accura V2 I use a .451 XPB Barnes pistol bullet in a black sabot ahead of 77 weighed grains of Bh209.... about 110 grains by volume. I get 1." accuracy with this bullet and 63 weighed grains of BH209 [90 by volume] but the group will shrink to about 3/4" for five shots at 100 yards using the heavier load. I've shot three deer well into the 160-170 yard distance with this bullet and have had all three as pass thru's and simply flattened each deer on the spot. Recoil at the heavier charge weight is still very manageable and I seldom have even loaded after the first shot so when hunting it's not like sitting at a range bench. Those 240 grain XPBs are ugly accurate,
 
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I had similar problem shooting FFG and TC 240 gr sabot, switched to Hodgdon Triple 7 , 50/50 pellets and Horandy Bore driver FTX. got very accurate results at 100 yds. One stray bullet due to a pellet not keeping its shape(I think), because the rod went in further than it should, so Horandy Bore driver FTX seated differently
Gun cleaned up much easier and I could shoot many more rounds before having to clean.
 
Well, with proper root cause analysis and subject matter input, it turned out to be the scope. After walking it in with a few shots, it is acceptable for me. I could do a click to the left, maybe. Anyway, I am ready for Wednesday. I picked up a ground blind this morning. With my medical issues, I am not quite comfortable with the climber yet. Thanks, all. For helping me get a load nailed down and troubleshooting a broken scope.

View attachment Final.jpg
 
I'm too late but thought I would add another scope to the list. Midway has been running an off and on sale on the Vortex Diamondback HP 3-12x42 for $199, regular Midway price is $399. I gotta tell you guys this is a damn good scope for $199. I have one on my Savage 220 slug gun, one on one of my AR's and one on two of my muzzleloaders. My smokeless Encore has a Vortex Viper HP that I bought 1/2 off at Midway (I should have bought more of those!).

I have shot a lot of rounds with all of these rifles, probably well over 250 rounds and the AR over 1000 rounds. This scope has performed flawlessly. Turrets are crisp and precise and the glass is very clear edge to edge.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2420141935?pid=141935
 
birdog said:
I'm too late but thought I would add another scope to the list. Midway has been running an off and on sale on the Vortex Diamondback HP 3-12x42 for $199, regular Midway price is $399. I gotta tell you guys this is a damn good scope for $199. I have one on my Savage 220 slug gun, one on one of my AR's and one on two of my muzzleloaders. My smokeless Encore has a Vortex Viper HP that I bought 1/2 off at Midway (I should have bought more of those!).

I have shot a lot of rounds with all of these rifles, probably well over 250 rounds and the AR over 1000 rounds. This scope has performed flawlessly. Turrets are crisp and precise and the glass is very clear edge to edge.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2420141935?pid=141935
Click to expand...
I own two of these scopes as well. I wish I would have had the wait time. I bought both of mine from Midway when they had the $199 sale before. Thanks.
 

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