For those that shoot conicals made of pure lead........

[drpatton]

You don't have to cast a hexagonal bullet for a Whitworth. Cylindrical bullets work great.

Is the Pedersoli Whitworth any good? I cannot find any Enfields.

 

[451whitworth]

You size your grease groove bullet to a slip fit in your rifle and any of the 4-525 grain .451” bullets will work. Seat a .030 x .465” card wad on the charge. The kick from a 90 grain charge will turn the gg bullet into an exact replica of the hexagonal bore in your rifle. It will be as accurate as anything cast from the whitworth mold.

Exactly. The bullets are round going down the bore but they leave hex shaped holes in the target.

 

[451whitworth]

I have read cylindrical bullets work and I know the Southern snipers used round them. I also read a cylindrical bullet passed through a piece of Whitworth barrel will size and shape them. But that brings up another problem, where does one get a piece of Whitworth barrel?
It's for this reason, I would rather paper patch a hex bullet, and I understand the paper patched are more accurate.

What do you use? A .451 grease groove? How accurate is it? It's the accuracy I'm after.

Yes, I use grease groove bullets. Accuracy with tang or aperture sights is excellent. I've shot 3 shot groups right at 1" many times @ 100 yards. Little cloverleafs. I own Parker Hale and EuroArms versions of the Whitworth and Volunteer rifles. All of them are shooters. I machined a bracket that attaches to the left side (using longer lock screws) to allow mounting of an aperture sight without drilling or using a horrible wood screw into the wrist. This was long before Pedersoli came out with their sight mount system.

 

[drpatton]

Yes, I use grease groove bullets. Accuracy with tang or aperture sights is excellent. I've shot 3 shot groups right at 1" many times @ 100 yards. Little cloverleafs. I own Parker Hale and EuroArms versions of the Whitworth and Volunteer rifles. All of them are shooters. I machined a bracket that attaches to the left side (using longer lock screws) to allow mounting of an aperture sight without drilling or using a horrible wood screw into the wrist. This was long before Pedersoli came out with their sight mount system.

I may, and I emphasize may, purchase a Pedersoli "Whitworth." I haven't heard anything good or bad, other than people like the Parker Hale versions better. My range only goes out to 300 yds. I would like to shoot 500 yds or meters with 1 MOA or better. I used to regularly shoot out to 500 yds. but that was over 40 years ago.
So, can a better than average shooter, shoot MOA with a Pedersoli Whitworth? Or does one need to be a really good marksman to do it?
What I don't know is, are my eyes good enough to do that? I'll need prescription shooting glasses (I don't wear glasses or contacts, except to read). I'm 20/20 without correction and 20/15 with. My problem is, the sights are close enough I need correction and the target is far enough out so I don't. Wierd

 

[X-ring]

I may, and I emphasize may, purchase a Pedersoli "Whitworth." I haven't heard anything good or bad, other than people like the Parker Hale versions better. My range only goes out to 300 yds. I would like to shoot 500 yds or meters with 1 MOA or better. I used to regularly shoot out to 500 yds. but that was over 40 years ago.
So, can a better than average shooter, shoot MOA with a Pedersoli Whitworth? Or does one need to be a really good marksman to do it?
What I don't know is, are my eyes good enough to do that? I'll need prescription shooting glasses (I don't wear glasses or contacts, except to read). I'm 20/20 without correction and 20/15 with. My problem is, the sights are close enough I need correction and the target is far enough out so I don't. Wierd

If you can shoot 2 MOA in a mid or long range black powder match you'll win every match you enter and probably set some national records to boot. You can be a better than average shooter but you'll need get some experience reading the wind. You also need to practice shooting from various positions that are specified in match rules.......X-sticks, front rest, wrist rest, sling, etc. Of course, it goes without saying that first you will need to find out what bullet, powder, wad combination works best in the rifle you get. It should be a fun journey for you. X

 

[drpatton]

If you can shoot 2 MOA in a mid or long range black powder match you'll win every match you enter and probably set some national records to boot. You can be a better than average shooter but you'll need get some experience reading the wind. You also need to practice shooting from various positions that are specified in match rules.......X-sticks, front rest, wrist rest, sling, etc. Of course, it goes without saying that first you will need to find out what bullet, powder, wad combination works best in the rifle you get. It should be a fun journey for you. X

I have shot MOA off of a bench at 300 yds.
I am not familiar with all of the positions necessary for competition. I have previously competed using the standing, sitting and prone positions, with no props other than a sling.
This could be a fun adventure.
Thank you

 

[drpatton]

If you can shoot 2 MOA in a mid or long range black powder match you'll win every match you enter and probably set some national records to boot. You can be a better than average shooter but you'll need get some experience reading the wind. You also need to practice shooting from various positions that are specified in match rules.......X-sticks, front rest, wrist rest, sling, etc. Of course, it goes without saying that first you will need to find out what bullet, powder, wad combination works best in the rifle you get. It should be a fun journey for you. X

I also want to be clear. I was taught to shoot properly and had to annually qualify with a M-16A1 out to 500 yds. That's East Coast. West Coast used meters. That is what made me better than average. The firing technique on a M-16 or M-14 is the same for a muzzleloader. In fact, a Flintlock is one of the best tools to teach proper technique.
No, I didn't drink the water at Camp Lejeune.

 

[WP79Vet]

I also cannot get T7 to shoot; However, I believe the problem is mine and not T7. I found Triple 7 burns a lot hotter than Pyrodex or BP. It burned up well lubed .020 heavy patches on RBs. That's when I decided to start using a felt wad over the powder. Now, I need to find a lube which can handle the difference in heat. Once I find the lube, I will need to work up a load. I will start by a 30% reduction in volume equivalence and then measure its weight.

I am going to experiment with T7 until I get it right. The reason is, I believe anything which will improve the efficiency of the powder and give more energy by volume, is well worth the effort. BP and Pyrodex are very inefficient in converting mass to energy and leave behind 50% to 60% of their mass in waste fouling. My understanding is T7 is 90% efficient, leaves little fouling and the energy released is much greater then BP or Pyrodex.

The only information Hodgdon has given me, is the shelf life of T7 when kept in a cool dry area, is endless. According to Hodgdon, T7 doesn't break down or deteriorate on the shelf, when kept dry. I was told T7 is extremely hygroscopic and must be stored correctly.

Idohoron, if you have any ideas which may help find a solution to the problem, I would appreciate it. Thanks

I agree with what Hodgdon said about the shelf life of T7. I have some T7 3F which is about 7 years old, and it shot just fine the other day. I store it in a good ammo can with a bag of dessicant in the can.

 

[ETipp]

I agree with what Hodgdon said about the shelf life of T7. I have some T7 3F which is about 7 years old, and it shot just fine the other day. I store it in a good ammo can with a bag of dessicant in the can.

My son had a box of 777 pellets that are no telling how old. Best we can surmise they were bought in about 2004 or so. He carried them in his truck glove box, left them on shelves, handled them with his bare hands, carried some in his pocket while he was hunting, and has moved multiple times. Even the box has a lot of wear and is faded from being thrown around. A couple weeks ago while I was at the range sighting in a new Optima for him, as well as working up an accurate load for it, those old pellets fired flawlessly.

 

[Bad Karma]

I also want to be clear. I was taught to shoot properly and had to annually qualify with a M-16A1 out to 500 yds. That's East Coast. West Coast used meters. That is what made me better than average. The firing technique on a M-16 or M-14 is the same for a muzzleloader. In fact, a Flintlock is one of the best tools to teach proper technique.
No, I didn't drink the water at Camp Lejeune.

The Pedersoli is a fine rifle and I believe the only reason people really prefer the parker hale is that it’s considered to be a real Enfield… which is strange because in its own way it is also just a replica of the various Enfield rifles.
”In an attempt to meet Le Breton’s request, Tony Kinchin traveled to the (Royal Armoury) museum at Enfield to record the dimensions of original rifle-muskets and the tooling used to manufacture them. To his delight, the museum director allowed him to take a set of original Enfield master gauges back to Parker Hale.”2 What this means is that Parker-Hale copied, almost exactly, from original gauges, the specifications for the machine made P53 British service rifle. This is the so called type IV Enfield manufactured at the Royal Small Arms Manufactory by the British War Department to supply their own troops. This particular version of the Enfield rifle was an improved design over earlier models still being commercially manufactured using individual craftsmen as they had for centuries in both Birmingham and London. The two variations were quite close in overall design, but not exactly the same in detail.”

A very high quality replica but with some variations from the originals. The Pedersoli rifles are ver high quality compared with the other Italian manufacturers and in terms of accuracy potential they should be neck and neck with the Parker Hale Whitworth. I have had two of the Pedersoli Gibbs target rifles and also a Navy Arms Spanish made Gibbs and the Pedersoli is made to a very high standard.

 

[drpatton]

The Pedersoli is a fine rifle and I believe the only reason people really prefer the parker hale is that it’s considered to be a real Enfield… which is strange because in its own way it is also just a replica of the various Enfield rifles.
”In an attempt to meet Le Breton’s request, Tony Kinchin traveled to the (Royal Armoury) museum at Enfield to record the dimensions of original rifle-muskets and the tooling used to manufacture them. To his delight, the museum director allowed him to take a set of original Enfield master gauges back to Parker Hale.”2 What this means is that Parker-Hale copied, almost exactly, from original gauges, the specifications for the machine made P53 British service rifle. This is the so called type IV Enfield manufactured at the Royal Small Arms Manufactory by the British War Department to supply their own troops. This particular version of the Enfield rifle was an improved design over earlier models still being commercially manufactured using individual craftsmen as they had for centuries in both Birmingham and London. The two variations were quite close in overall design, but not exactly the same in detail.”

A very high quality replica but with some variations from the originals. The Pedersoli rifles are ver high quality compared with the other Italian manufacturers and in terms of accuracy potential they should be neck and neck with the Parker Hale Whitworth. I have had two of the Pedersoli Gibbs target rifles and also a Navy Arms Spanish made Gibbs and the Pedersoli is made to a very high standard.

Given time and money, I will purchase both the Pedersoli "Gibbs" & "Whitworth." My money tree died, so I'll buy one now, and I will have to wait a while for the other.

There are very few retail outlets who sell these rifles. Dixie & Cherry's are the only 2, I am aware of.
Is there another retailer to purchase from? (Muzzle-Loader.com doesn't sell either of these two rifles)

Thank you, Bad Karma.

 

[Bad Karma]

Given time and money, I will purchase both the Pedersoli "Gibbs" & "Whitworth." My money tree died, so I'll buy one now, and I will have to wait a while for the other.

There are very few retail outlets who sell these rifles. Dixie & Cherry's are the only 2, I am aware of.
Is there another retailer to purchase from? (Muzzle-Loader.com doesn't sell either of these two rifles)

Thank you, Bad Karma.

Buffalo Arms sells the Pedersoli rifles. No idea what’s currently in stock… good luck!

 

[drpatton]

Buffalo Arms sells the Pedersoli rifles. No idea what’s currently in stock… good luck!

Out Of Stock
Buffalo Arms didn't list the Whitworth.

 

[Bad Karma]

Out Of Stock
Buffalo Arms didn't list the Whitworth.

View attachment 29375

They do. But also out of stock…

 

[drpatton]

They do. But also out of stock…
View attachment 29402

I missed it, but it too, is out of stock.

I emailed Pedersoli about 9 months ago. They blamed their stock issues on COVID. I called Cherry's & one the the American Distributors and they both told me told me it's a problem with them getting raw materials. I assume that must mean China, since Pedersoli told me it was COVID related.

 

[idahoron]

I missed it, but it too, is out of stock.

I emailed Pedersoli about 9 months ago. They blamed their stock issues on COVID. I called Cherry's & one the the American Distributors and they told me both told me it's a problem with them getting raw materials. I assume that must mean China, since Pedersoli told me it was COVID related.

I saw that someone here in the states has a brand new Gibbs for sale. He might have a Whitworth I can't remember.

 

[Bad Karma]

I missed it, but it too, is out of stock.

I emailed Pedersoli about 9 months ago. They blamed their stock issues on COVID. I called Cherry's & one the the American Distributors and they told me both told me it's a problem with them getting raw materials. I assume that must mean China, since Pedersoli told me it was COVID related.

Yeah, “normal” may never return. I wonder…

 

[drpatton]

I saw that someone here in the states has a brand new Gibbs for sale. He might have a Whitworth I can't remember.

Dixie has a couple for $2,200 a piece.

 

[drpatton]

Yeah, “normal” may never return. I wonder…

I don't know what normal means anymore. Was Pedersoli not able to meet their commitment with Lyman? The Lyman web page no longer mentions or lists rifles. Cherry's told me the distributor is taking orders which may not be filled for a few years. This is all due to a lack of raw materials. I can foresee Pedersoli rifles becoming collectors items very quickly.

 

[Bad Karma]

I don't know what normal means anymore. Was Pedersoli not able to meet their commitment with Lyman? The Lyman web page no longer mentions or lists rifles. Cherry's told me the distributor is taking orders which may not be filled for a few years. This is all due to a lack of raw materials. I can foresee Pedersoli rifles becoming collectors items very quickly.

Indeed. I’m beginning to suspect Covid hit Italian manufacturers much harder than we knew or know. Uberti and Pietta have struggled the past years but seem to be able to provide the bread and butter guns now. Pedersoli is a long step up in quality and their workforce may be more highly trained. In which case, replacing the fallen could be much more difficult. Who knows? Might be moot unless manufacturers gear up and offer percussion caps again and I’m not encouraged by what I see on that front…