Heard back from Herb, he has too many irons in the fire to be on here, but is willing to help those with questions on the Hawken guns. That's very nice of him to offer. Here's his reply to this conversation on Hawken's and their guns, several of us he has corrected our remarks.
I stand corrected Herb, thank you.
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It was OK to share this information. I did get Jim Gordon's permission to copy his photos to help anyone who wanted the help.
Comment by Bear Claw (he says he wants an authentic Hawken). 'Herb built a Bridger 1/8" to 1' 33" and it was over 10 pounds'.
I said I had a GRRW barrel that was 31" long, 1 1/8 straight, and my copy weighed 10 pounds 8 ounces, IRC. The original Bridger I measured at Helena, MT as 33 3/4" from snail to muzzle, and it was 1.185 wide ahead of the snail and 1.12 at the muzzle.
I scaled Liver Eating Johnson's rifle from Gordon's book. If the lock is 5" long, the barrel is 31.75" and the trigger reach is 13.37", and Johnson was 6' 4" tall (it is in one of my AMLR posts) and weighed 270 pounds.
Connor said the Kit Carson Hawken was at GRRW. No, they never had it, they had the Bridger rifle for about four years (IIRC) and I handled it there in 1978.
Bear Claw refers to American Rifleman, but the name of the site is
americanlongrifles.com. He said 'Herb seems to think the Carson and Bridger guns are the same.' No, I said the Bridger had a barrel over two
inches longer but otherwise they were near twins. Though I have not yet personally handled and measured the Carson rifle, one reference (Galamb) says it measures 1.129 ahead of the snail and 1.065 at the muzzle. I don't know where he got this. And the Bridger barrel is not tapered, Carl Walker said you could make that much difference with a file.
Frontier Gander- Thanks. It is nice to be loved, or even appreciated. I freely share what I know that will help others, and so do many more on the AMLR forum, but it is uncommon for the original poster to come back and say thanks for the effort.
Bear Claw- I have assembled the most accurate measurements and details and even photos of these Hawkens and freely share them. If you want the most authentic Hawken you can have built, as you wrote, I have shared what I know. If somebody just wants a generic Track of the Wolf Hawken, that's fine. 'He's convinced a 14 1/2" LOP won't fit anybody'. Never did I say that. But probably 90 out of 100 people would shoot a shorter LOP better and most of those will be uncomfortable with such a long trigger reach. Hell, even Daisy Red Ryder BB guns have a 13 7/8" LOP for little boys- and you know how they hold the gun.
Conner- The real (Carson?) is in Jim Gordon's collection'. No- it is in the Montezuma Lodge at Sante Fe. I have been to Gordon's museum but have not yet handled the original Carson rifle. I have carefully handled,
measured and photographed the Bridger rifle in Helena and a Hawken in Cheyenne and the "Robidoux" Hawken in Lincoln.
It takes a lot of time, photography and effort to post on forums, and I doubt I could contribute much to yours. I have my hands full building a rifle for my antelope hunt this September. It will be a Hawken fullstock caplock (because I like that shape) with a 13 1/4" LOP, but a .50 caliber 32" Rice Jaeger (swamped) barrel. I will not call it a Hawken, but a plains rifle. I will post about this on AMLR in time. If any of your members want information I have or advice, they can E-mail me. I have no interest in building for others. Best wishes to all. Herb
