Hornady SST and Deer

[ShawnT]

Hi guys, I think that this is the first time I have posted on this forum. I have been lurking for some time though. I have noticed that many of you have been using the SST and the Shockwaves for Deer hunting. I am very curious as to the actual results you have had on deer. I shoot a Knight MK 95 Magnum Elite in .50 cal. I have shot several Deer and one Black bear with it (430 lbs). This particular rifle has never really liked a bullet that was in the 250 grain or lighter weight. But it really LOVES 300 and 310 grainers. I used the Swift A-frame in 300 grain ( 45cal) to take the bear. Snuck it in through some brush at 45 yards into the neck at the base of the skull. Can we say Lights OUT! 8)
I have been using the Knight 310 grain lead bullets for seveal years on Deer with great results. Both bullets are launched with 2 pyrodex pellets 50's, and will strike the same POI. Love that!

2 Seasons ago I picked up a box of the Honady 250grain SST's and was quite pleased with the way they shot. It is so far the only "light" bullet that this rifle has shot well. I decided to try it on deer that season. It was tough hunting but did manage to get one nice Doe. The Doe was shot at about 30 yards the first shot. It knocked her down but she got her feet back and ran about 10 yards and stood looking back. I was sort of hidden by a brush pile and after reloading I shot her again . Both shots were just behind the front leg in the lungs. Again down she went only to get up and go another 10 yards. I was sort of dumbfounded. I reloaded and took the last shot at about 50 yards. This time she was down for good. When I dressed her out I was suprized to find that the first 2 shots were only about 2 or 3 inches apart looked like they had just punched a hole through both lungs as if they had not expanded. The 3rd shot was the same but had got the heart as well as the lungs. I was quite disappointed in this performance and it frankly had me puzzled.

Last season I used my old reliable Knight 310 grain lead hollowpoint and took 2 does and one buck, all with one shot each. The does were taken at 80 and 110 yards. The buck was a small 6 pointer and was shot at about 25 yards. The buck had come in from behind where I was sitting on a ledge. I had to turn at the waist while sitting to bring the rifle up on him. He slammed on the brakes and froze when he realized that something was wrong. There was a small 4" in diameter tree that was covering a bit of his chest but I was sure I could get it past that with no problem. When the smoke cleared he was down where he stood like he had been pole axed! When I walked up to him I noticed that he had 2 entry holes about 1 " apart. I looked back and saw that I must have turned just a bit and had shot that little tree in the center! When I dressed him out I found that the mushroom had broken off of the bullet and it as well as the base had hit him square in the chest. Heart and lungs were mush.

So I was wondering what kind of performace you have been getting with the SST and Shockwaves on deer. Did I just have a bad batch? Maybe they did not open because the speed was wrong for them at that short distance? Not sure, but for now I think that I will be shooting my Knight 310's again this season.

Shawn T

 

[jaybe]

Hi ShawnT - Welcome to the forum!
I haven't shot either of those bullets, but from what you just said, if I were you, I'd sure stick with that 310. Can you say, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"? :lol:

 

[jims]

I have used both the 250 and 300sst's. One shot kills with the deer traveling only about 20 yards after lung shots. This is in a Savage ML10.

 

[Spitpatch]

Last year on the farm we shot 5 deer from 20 to 110 yards with 200 gr. Shockwaves over 115 gr. 777 ffg. All complete pass throughs so no bullet recovery and all with 1-1/2" exits. The farthest went 25 yards.
Great bullet for me.

 

[big6x6]

So I was wondering what kind of performace you have been getting with the SST and Shockwaves on deer

They've always worked great for me. I've used them with a muzzle velocity from 1850fps to 2400fps+ with no real complaints here except maybe a little too fragile at 2300fps+ and short-range shots. I like 'em and will still use the this year.

 

[RAF]

I've been using 250 SST's for the past two seasons since I bought my Savage. Season 3 is coming in a couple of weeks. The first year I used them on a whitetail buck and a mulie doe. The buck was 170 yds and dropped in his tracks. The doe went less than 20 yds. Last year I shot 4. Once again 1 whitetail buck and 3 mulie does. One mulie dropped in it's tracks and the other 3 deer went less than 20 yds. When field dress all of them noted tremendous damage to internal organs. I like 'em and will keep using them.

 

[ShawnT]

Thanks guys. I guess it was just one of those things that can happen and you never really figure out why. Maybe I will pick up a new package and try them again later this year. The Knight 310 used to be carried by a lot of shops but I can only find them listed direct from Knight. Maybe I should order a few packs so I always have them. I suppose one of the best reasons to stick with it is the confidence I have in that load. :wink:

Shawn T

 

[whitesmoke]

Shawn,

My guess is that with two Pyrodex pellets your velocity isn't real 'smokin' compared to what the Savage guys can get. For us who obtain only moderate velocity with our rifles I don't think you can do much better than an all lead projectile. I shoot a Ruger 77/50 with 95 to 100grs of T7 2F and a prbullet 360gr Kiethnose hp, a real deer 'cruncher' if I may say so. Please don't scathe this newbie too bad for using a prbullet.

 

[choc-dog]

Dear ShawnT,

You sure have expalined your situation with bullets very well. The Swift bullet that was offered by Knight was a excellent bullet. My buddy used them with fabulous resuts.....always a dead deer walkin..then a bang flop.

You may have picked up a questionable box of Hornady SST'S but that is rare. The lead core is swaged into the copper jacket so either the core was to hard for the impact velocity or the copper jacket was to thick.

Hornady routinely shoots test bullets from each batch of production run bullets. But :twisted: :twisted: happens.

May I suggest you try some 777 pellets or better yet some 777 2f loose powder which is less expensive per shot than pellets and work up an accuracy load in 5 grain increments. G :wink: Get your velocity up.

Thousands of deer are killed every year with the Hornady SST'S or the Shock Waves (same bullet but different diameter sabot) and the deer are sure not happy with the bullet performance.

 

[RAF]

In my previous post I swore by the SST and I still think they are an excellent bullet for deer. However, on Thursday I shot a buck with a 250 bonded SW and was really impressed. The bullet held together a lot better than the SST and preformed how a bullet, IMO, should. I made a small hole, about 45 cal, going in, and mushroomed to about double it's size. It didn't exit and I found it just inside the skin on the other side. Internal damage was massive. Deer dropped in it tracks. All the energy of that bullet was transferred to the deer. I'll be switching now.

 

[n8dawg6]

those mk-95s were great rifles. same 24" barrel as the mk-85. the mk95s are hard to come by these days, i dont think ive ever seen one for sale. great results youre getting there!

IMO, stick with whut works in the rifle. i usually shoot lighter saboted bullets than 300 grains for whitetail deer hunting because the recoil is lighter and the trajectory is flatter. however, with my mk-85 i have yet to find a load thats a real tackdriver, and i think its because i havent gone over 250 grains with my bullets. id definitely be willing to accept a little more recoil and loopy trajectory to get a more accurate load!

 

[SKhunter]

I agree with whitesmokes assessment, the first time I tried 250gr sst's was with 90 gr of T7 FFG in my rem 700, accuracy was superb so I deceided to give them a go. My whitetail doe was exactly like you describe, shot was 75yards hit her perfect but she dropped then regained her feet and just walked off I could see the hole/blood in her hide a little high but knew it was solid hit. I reloaded and waited a few minutes before pursuing, the blood trail was visible but not great till just outside the trees then it opened up and she never made it 20 yards off the meadow. Slightly bigger than .45 cal hole right through her. I immediately switched back to my 240 xtp load and never had a problem. The next year I developed a 110 ffg T7 load and performance improved dramatically with 250gr SST. 7 deer were shot with that load out of my remmy and not one covered more than 30 yards with good internal damage, never requiring a second shot. With the savage velocity they are a devasting load, my doe just flopped this year after a double lung at 125 yards. My partner has taken 5 deer with his savage only one actually ran after the shot but most of that was on its nose.

Simply put more umf behind them or stick with what you know works!!

 

[ShawnT]

Thanks, Guys. Whitesmoke and SKHunter. You pretty much seem to confirm what I thought might be the problem. I figured that the velocity might be just a little too low for good expansion with the SST.

The MK95 was only rated for a MAX load of 130 grains by Knight. I bought this rifle in 1998, if memory serves, and I think that was also the year it was discontinued. The 2 best loads that I have used was the Knight 310 Lead HP over 2 50gn pyrodex pellets or the Swift 300 gn A-Frame with the same charge. Both shoot to the same point of impact and about the same size groups, about 1" when I do my part. :wink: I used the Swift on only one Deer and it was also at about 30 yards. It was a bang flop too. It was perfect on the Bear I shot in Maine. It mushroomed perfectly back to the partition. The Knight 310 lead has never let me down on deer so far, and the farthest a deer has gone was maybe 30 yards.

I still have a few SSTs left but not sure I will try them this year again. I think that I will stick with the Knight 310 since I don't have much time this year to experiment before I get to go hunting this season, back home in SE Ohio.

I also have never seen another MK95 advertised. I actually found out about this model from a knight Tech support rep. They had just released the first Disc rifle and I hated the butt stock on them. The back of the stock at the butt pad creates a Hook that would not allow me to smoothly shoulder it. So I had called them about restocking it with a Straight comb stock so I could cut it down to fit me. They said that they did not have any other stocks at that time that could take the pressure generated by the disc rifle. So he told me about the MK95 and sent me the info and some pictures of it. He said it was just discontinued but that there were several sent out to distributors. A local shop had one for me in a week. It is still my favorite rifle.

I have been looking for a Disc Elite 50 in SS but always seem to miss them before I scrape up the extra cash. Maybe some day.

Thanks for the replies,

ShawnT

 

[whitesmoke]

ShawnT,

Since you've been having such good results with all lead bullets on deer I thought I'd tell you about some that I just found on the net. Just type in Hunterman bullets on your search engine and the site should come up. I haven't tried them yet but I think I'm going to. Their Mag Tips look especially impressive. I love bullets with big hollow points or wide meplats, they have what I call 'smack factor' 8) .

Whitesmoke

 

[ShawnT]

Whitesmoke, Thanks for the link. I checked it out and the Mag Tip looks a lot like the Knight. I love that Smack Factor too! :yeah: I did not see any weights listed in his ad though. I might email them later and ask about it. They cost a little more than the Knight though. Knight still lists the big 310 for about $11 with the sabots and there are 20 per pack. The Hunterman looks to be about $36 per 50 plus $5 or $7 for the Sabots depending on whether you want long or short peddle. But it is a very cool looking bullet! 8)

Thanks,

ShawnT

 

[MObigbucks]

ShawnT and whitesmoke,
If you use the search function at the top of the page, type in "hunterman" and you'll get 21 threads containing some more info on those bullets. Take a look and welcome aboard! There are a lot of very knowledgeable folks who post here, some shoot more BP in a month than most do in their entire lives. They gladly share their experience and results, and I'm truly grateful to them.

 

[whitesmoke]

ShawnT,

Those 310gr Knights are very economical, I might have to give them a shot (no pun intended). Question, you described the performance of one of the 310's, how did the other two do? Any shoot throughs, how was the terminal performance? Obviously they did well to achieve one shot kills, was just wanting a little more detail. BTW, the Huntermans are $29 for fifty and an additional $6.00 for the sabots; I was also mistaken on that until the owner emailed me back and clarified some things for me. He also said he would sell a mix of two different weights, base styles and or nose types (hollow point or solid) so one could find the best shooting bullet for their particular rifle.

Thanks,

Whitesmoke

 

[whitesmoke]

MObigbucks,

Thanks for the info and the welcome!

Whitesmoke

 

[ShawnT]

Whitesmoke,

I have been shooting the Knight 310 for several years. You used to be able to get them every where that sold Knight accessories. But I can only seem to locate them direct from Knight. But that's ok too since they are very good at shipping quickly and the price is about the same as they were in the stores.

I seem to remember only recovering maybe 1 or 2 slugs from deer. They were very well mushroomed out but still had some of the base left, maybe 1/3 rd or so. Most all had been pass throughs with a 45 cal hole going in and an exit hole from about the size of a quarter ( maybe a bit bigger) to the something the size of a silver doller. Lungs and or hearts very badly damaged. I have always had a good blood trail even though most have never gone 30 yards.

If you read in my first post I actually shot through a tree and still got the buck I was shooting at. I meant to just miss the tree by about 2" or so but I pulled back a little I guess. He had come in from behind me where I was sitting at the base of a tree on a ledge. I had to turn almost 180* at the waist and put the butt pad on my forearm to shoot. The buck was was probably 16" to 2' behind that tree quartering to me. At the shot you would have thought he had been Pole Axed. Big time Bang Flop!! 8) I found that the Mushroom had broke off of the bullet after exiting the tree and it as well as the base of the bullet hit the buck about 2" apart. The mushroom was close to quarter size and the base, about 1/2 of the bullet, remained intact but penatrated the chest busting the heart and the right side lung. I found it just under the skin close to the back rib. The mushroom was found in the base of the neck/throat close to the windpipe. Lots of neck muscle damage. So even though I did not intentionally try to shoot through the tree, knowing that that bullet did such a good job left a grin on my face all day.

I always go back home to SE Ohio for Gun season and hunt with my brother and Nephew. Some of the terrain we hunt can have openings up to 150 yards or be very brushy and shots are from almost the muzzle to 50 yards. Apart from this rifle seems to love bullets around 300 grains, I like the heavier bullets for the hammer like hit they give, the "Smack Factor" as you said.

I did use the 240 Grain XTP on one small buck once. It did ok, it did not shoot as small of groups as I would like, maybe 2 to 2 1/2 inches, but was more than accetable for hunting. The buck was about 70 yards across a creek bottom. I did not plan to shoot him because he was just a small spike. He seemed to be moving slow and had a funny walk. After he got clear of some tall weeds I noticed he had a very bad limp in his front legs and seemed like he was in pain. He was having a lot of trouble just limping along and would stop every couple of limps and pant some. I saw he had a bad dark wound on the back of the front left leg. I decided that he was suffering too much so I decided to take him. The bullet shot through both lungs and exited the right side, both lungs were tore up pretty good. He was knocked off his feet, but got up and ran about 70 yards in a death sprint. When I looked him over I found that both front legs had a similar wound that was about 3" or so across and scabbed over. Plus he had a very nasty smell about him. I checked him in a the check station then skinned out the front legs to see what was going on. Both Front legs had green puss like stuff under the skin so I assume it was maybe ganggreen. I just took him back and buried him. I really doubt he would have survived much longer. Never was sure how he got those wounds. They were not fresh enough to have been from a slug durring gun season. Could have been from a slug by a poacher or maybe a car, who knows.

Recoil from the bench with the knight 310 and 2 pyrodex pellets is quite stiff but you don't notice it hunting. It is very accurate from my rifle, but you do have to really hang on tight off the bags. It will just tear real big holes in the target out to 100yds. Got to love it! 8)

ShawnT

 

[ShawnT]

Whitesmoke,

The Swift A-Frame did have a lot of penatration too. That deer was also quartering to me at about 40 yards and I shot him in the chest. Heart and right lung were destroyed and the bullet was found under the skin at the right rear ham. Bullet was mushroomed back to the partition. So it did its job well. I had just used it on a bear a few months earlier and the bullet looked like a carbon copy. I shot that bear at about 25 to 30 yards in the neck about 2" from the base of the skull. It shattered his neck. He never knew what hit him. I just thought that the Swift might be a bit more bullet than really needed for whitetails, but it did a great job. It would be perfect for bear, elk and the like. I am quite sure it would give pass throughs on broadside shots on whitetails. I have a lot of them too. I caught them on close out at Gander Mountain once and paid about $2.50 a pack for them. I got about 6 or 8 packs. So if I run low on the Knights I know I have a back up that I know shoots just as well.

ShawnT