How long do Knight Western breech plugs last?

[Buster Brown]

Been doing a lot of research on here and seeing that the Knight breech plugs on the bolt rifles are lasting about 50 shots. But I think that is with 209 primers? Do they wear out breech plugs faster?

I have a Knight Ultralight Western ignition, but I haven’t yet fired it. Can I expect them to last longer?

Are there recommended after market breech plugs for the Northwest compliant guns (no 209 primers).

Mine came with one plug and two nipples. I think one is for musket caps and the other for #11 caps (don’t really know the difference, just words on the screen, but it seems #11 are preferred)?

Does the musket cap vs #11 wear out a Western breechplug faster?

Thanks,

Buster

 

[flounder]

Your breech plug itself should last virtually forever. Your nipples will need replacing when they become too badly peened or when the flash hole becomes too large.
I think it is the ventliners that are wearing out on the 209 models you are referring to.
Art

 

[sabotloader]

Been doing a lot of research on here and seeing that the Knight breech plugs on the bolt rifles are lasting about 50 shots. But I think that is with 209 primers? Do they wear out breech plugs faster?

Not sure where you got the 50 shots thought, I would say it is more like 200, but a lot of that depends on which primer you might use and the head spacing of the primer. I do agree that the soldered in version of the vent liner does wear out fast than a replaceable vent liner.

I have a Knight Ultralight Western ignition, but I haven’t yet fired it. Can I expect them to last longer?

With a Western ignition you will probably never wear out the breech plug. You will in time erode the replaceable nipple that screws into the breech plug.

Are there recommended after market breech plugs for the Northwest compliant guns (no 209 primers).

Mine came with one plug and two nipples. I think one is for musket caps and the other for #11 caps (don’t really know the difference, just words on the screen, but it seems #11 are preferred)?

The smaller of the two nipples is the #11 nipple the other the larger of the two is for a Musket cap.

Does the musket cap vs #11 wear out a Western breechplug faster?

Thanks,

Buster

Again niether of the two nipples should effect the wear of the breech plug. I would suggest that you use the #11 nipple for you ignition source. I would also suggest that you use the CCI #11 MAGNUM cap for target practice and recreational shooting (less expensive) and then se the RWS Dynamit Noble 1075 Plus cap for hunting. The 1075 is the hottest of the 2 and equally hot as a Musket cap if not not hotter since most American Musket caps are going back to re-enactment quality.

Here is a picture of the two caps...

You will want to get a capper for installation of the cap on the nipple. I reccomend the Traditions Brass capper for this duty.

 

[Buster Brown]

Gents,

Thanks for the detailed responses and thorough explanations.

I definitely ascribe to the Gospel of Sabotloader, and will take your advice on the #11 caps over the musket caps.

But I am curious, what specifically makes them better?

Thanks,

Buster

 

[sabotloader]

Gents,

Thanks for the detailed responses and thorough explanations.

I definitely ascribe to the Gospel of Sabotloader, and will take your advice on the #11 caps over the musket caps.

But I am curious, what specifically makes them better?

Thanks,

Buster

The biggest reason for me is if you have the right nipple and you press the cap on with the capper - the breech will essentually become water proof. To test the fit - press the cap on - then the only way you should be able to get the cap off is 1. shoot it off or 2 peel it of with the edge of a knife blade.

If you can pick it off with your finger or finge nail it is not fitting tight enough,

 

[Buster Brown]

Sabotloader,

Are the No. 11 caps tighter than musket caps in relation to nipple size?

What is different about the caps? Why would a No. 11 cap fit tighter on a properly sized No. 11 nipple than a musket cap on a properly sized musket nipple? I know the musket caps are bigger from reading, but are they constructed differently? Just trying to understand the mechanics of the differences.

And on the topic of nipples, I was looking on the Knight website in order to get a spare. They list musket nipples and then varying sizes of redhot nipples, which the descriptions say are for #11, but it only differentiates them by thread type. Which one is for an Ultralight?

https://www.muzzleloaders.com/product-c ... r-nipples/

Thanks again for the patience and knowledge,

Buster

 

[sabotloader]

Sabotloader,

Are the No. 11 caps tighter than musket caps in relation to nipple size?

They certainly can be depending on the nipple you purchase - not all nipples are made with the same dimensions... Sometimes it is a trail and erro thing finding the correct nipple fit.

What is different about the caps? Why would a No. 11 cap fit tighter on a properly sized No. 11 nipple than a musket cap on a properly sized musket nipple? I know the musket caps are bigger from reading, but are they constructed differently? Just trying to understand the mechanics of the differences.

The biggest difference in my mind is the construction of the cap. #11 caps are a one piece cap with convoluted walls. Musket caps have slits in the sides that makes them more susceptible to moisture and more difficult to get a great fit.

This picture shows what I am trying to suggest.

You can see the slits up the sides of the musket caps.

This picture shows an experiment that I did awhile back - proving to myself what I thought I knew.

The cap survived this submersion in water and went bang when loaded on the a nipple and pulled the trigger;

And on the topic of nipples, I was looking on the Knight website in order to get a spare. They list musket nipples and then varying sizes of redhot nipples, which the descriptions say are for #11, but it only differentiates them by thread type. Which one is for an Ultralight?

https://www.muzzleloaders.com/product-c ... r-nipples/

Thanks again for the patience and knowledge,

Buster

This picture shows a Knight Red Hot...

American made rifles take a 1/4 x 28 nipple.

 

[Buster Brown]

Thank you, Sabotloader!

Well I can clearly see how the Musket caps, with the slits on the sides, would be less weatherproof than No.11 caps.

I picked up both the CCI magnum and Remington (40 percent hotter) variety of No.11 caps, which were available locally. Will see which fit better. Signed up to be notified when Sportsmen’s Warehouse has the RWS in stock and will order those as well.

Is there any observable way (sound or feel) to determine which cap provides better ignition?

Regards,

Buster

 

[Muley Hunter]

I find the CCI mag caps to be hotter and more reliable than the Rem caps. Now that Remington is bankrupt I wouldn't get used to using any of their stuff.

 

[sabotloader]

Thank you, Sabotloader!

Well I can clearly see how the Musket caps, with the slits on the sides, would be less weatherproof than No.11 caps.

I picked up both the CCI magnum and Remington (40 percent hotter) variety of No.11 caps, which were available locally. Will see which fit better. Signed up to be notified when Sportsmen’s Warehouse has the RWS in stock and will order those as well.

Is there any observable way (sound or feel) to determine which cap provides better ignition?

Regards,

Buster

There are ways you could test the pressure of each cap - possibly insert a tight sabot pressed down as far as it will go, then touch off a cap and measure how far up the bore the cap each pushes the sabot.

 

[Buster Brown]

So the short answer is there is no easy way. Was probably overthinking it anyway.

I’ll just do as recommended and use the Rem and CCI for range caps and the RWS for hunting caps.

Thanks for the info,

Buster

 

[sabotloader]

So the short answer is there is no easy way. Was probably overthinking it anyway.

I’ll just do as recommended and use the Rem and CCI for range caps and the RWS for hunting caps.

Thanks for the info,

Buster

Personally I really think that is the best option....

 

[Muley Hunter]

Why not use RWS for everything? Once you get the proper fit of cap to nipple I wouldn't want to use anything else.

 

[sabotloader]

Why not use RWS for everything? Once you get the proper fit of cap to nipple I wouldn't want to use anything else.

Ya! you probably would - you are cheaper than I and I am cheap...

I normally shoot to much and the costs add up! Same reason I do not shoot BH - to much for 10 ounces and T7 is so much less expensive here and gets near the same velocities.

Because the RWS is twice as expensive and hotter than the CCI and if the CCI #11 Mag fits the RWS will fit better.

 

[Muley Hunter]

Local shop here gets the same price for RWS as the CCI mags. Although I almost always use the RWS musket caps. I like the reliable ignition from musket caps. Never had a problem in wet weather. I did when using #11 caps. I do use a cows knee when it's raining, so that helps a lot.

 

[sabotloader]

Local shop here gets the same price for RWS as the CCI mags. Although I almost always use the RWS musket caps. I like the reliable ignition from musket caps. Never had a problem in wet weather. I did when using #11 caps. I do use a cows knee when it's raining, so that helps a lot.

See out here CCI's #11 Mags are $5.00 and RWS Dynamit Noble 1075 plus are $10...

With the proper fit of the cap to the nipple you really do not need the cows knee with #11 caps... you can go bare....

Shooting either cap does not make a difference in velocity or accuracy.

 

[MSalyards]

Have you guys tried Schutzen brand musket caps? Plenty hot like the old 300s but not as sparky as RWS.

 

[Muley Hunter]

Local shop here gets the same price for RWS as the CCI mags. Although I almost always use the RWS musket caps. I like the reliable ignition from musket caps. Never had a problem in wet weather. I did when using #11 caps. I do use a cows knee when it's raining, so that helps a lot.

See out here CCI's #11 Mags are $5.00 and RWS Dynamit Noble 1075 plus are $10...

With the proper fit of the cap to the nipple you really do not need the cows knee with #11 caps... you can go bare....

Shooting either cap does not make a difference in velocity or accuracy.

I use a cows knee with musket caps. I don't like fiddling with #11 caps.

Don't you buy caps in bulk? Cheaper that way.

 

[WV Hunter]

About the only brand regularly available around here are CCI. Usually about $8. I did buy some RWS a couple years ago for $10 but haven't seen them in a while anywhere. I use RWS mostly, imo they are the best.

 

[WV Hunter]

I use a cows knee with musket caps. I don't like fiddling with #11 caps.

No fiddling for me. I load my capper and they pop right on solidly. Can't get a whole lot easier imo.