Light and fast or slow and heavy

[1874sharpsshooter]

The age old argument between light and fast versus slow and heavy will never be decided . I think it has a lot to do with personal preference and hunting situation . I do know I can shoot about 4 lead conicals for the price of I sabotless Parker Emax . Anyway I was curious as to whether or not in a hunting situation, not 500 yard target , if I would have a better group with sabotless emax or lead conical .
I needed to sight in the Vortex anyway so it was a good opportunity to try both at 100 yards and see what happened
I used a Lehigh bare primer adapter instead of RPJ
For the emax I shot 120 gr volume Blackhorn ,veggie wad and federal primer
For Ed’s conical I used 70 gr 777 in 3f , veggie wad and 777 primer
Same gun ( fast twist Knight ) front rest,no rear rest just the shoulder .
Results were what I expected
For hunting the accuracy of either is good enough for me and I can definitely practice more with lead than the sabotless emax
For the long range target shooters I am sure the sabotless emax is the hands down winner but for the rest of us lead is still a good option.

 

[Dougs136Schwartz]

I have ran the numbers over and over . A 530 grain lead bullet traveling at 1300 fps has the same wind drift or less than the very best modern muzzleloader bullet traveling at say 2200 fps. I'm talking about 500 yards with a 10 mile side wind . If a person can get the same accuracy I see no advantage to shooting light and fast vs slow and heavy at know.distances such as targets. This is something I have been thinking about for a long time . I'm just not experienced enough with a heavy lead grease grooved bullet or paper patched bullet to get the accuracy I want . I know how to make a Parker Emax or Pittman Aeromax shoot . Just need to figure out how to get the heavy lead to shoot to get a fair comparison. Last weekend I watched Jason Day throw some heavy lead with Blackhorn 209 . That has really peaked my interest.

 

[Semisane]

We don't have the wide open spaces that you have. On our 900 acre hunting lease the absolute maximum distance at which I would have a clear shot at a deer is 175 yards, and that on just one of our stands. All others are 150 yards max. So heavy and slow is just fine for me, especially since I'm shooting from known ranges on every stand I hunt.

 

[Muley Hunter]

There's a 3rd option. Light, slow, and close.

 

[1874sharpsshooter]

There's a 3rd option. Light, slow, and close.

True but Not a very good option for most of the areas where I hunt .
Not if you want to ensure a high success rate anyway
Last year I had 14 stalks for archery antelope. Did not fill a tag. No meat . Filled a tag for an elderly during antelope gun season . 300+ yards . Yay. ... meat . So while an option in some cases it isn’t an option in some cases .

 

[Semisane]

There's a 3rd option. Light, →slow←, and close.

Are you referring to the load Muley, or to old birds like us?

 

[Muley Hunter]

There's a 3rd option. Light, →slow←, and close.

Are you referring to the load Muley, or to old birds like us?

Unfortunately, both in our cases.

 

[1874sharpsshooter]

There's a 3rd option. Light, →slow←, and close.

Are you referring to the load Muley, or to old birds like us?

Must be referring to load since it includes “light” not heavy

 

[Lee 9]

Why go to extremes? A medium weight bullet like 250 grain and a good sabot with 110 or 115 grain load of BH does a nice job as far as most people have a need for 250 yards seems to me to be a practical limit for a good part of the country.
Another thing is light and fast, with a muzzleloader sounds like a joke.
Slow and heavy sounds like a built in trajectory problem, sometimes you have like two or 3 seconds to get the job done right it might take that long for a 500 or 6oo grain bullet to get there.

 

[Idaholewis]

Slow and heavy sounds like a built in trajectory problem, sometimes you have like two or 3 seconds to get the job done right it might take that long for a 500 or 6oo grain bullet to get there.

If you only have 2-3 seconds to get the job done “right” you shouldn’t be taking a shot like that. My opinion anyway

 

[SEMAHunter]

If you only have 2-3 seconds to get the job done “right” you shouldn’t be taking a shot like that. My opinion anyway

i guess it all depends where you are hunting. This may be true in the wide open spaces of the West but in the comparatively thick forests of the East - not so much. Two or three seconds is plenty of time for a good shot if you are still hunting or tracking. If you are on a stand, you will probably be afforded more time for the shot.
I think the average shot distance for my brother and I on deer over the past 40 plus years is 40 or 50 yards or less. The amount of time we have had to shoot varies but I'm sure it wasn't more then 3 or 4 seconds or less. We track when there is snow or still hunt when there is bare ground. We don't spend much time stand hunting.

 

[Muley Hunter]

If you only have 2-3 seconds to get the job done “right” you shouldn’t be taking a shot like that. My opinion anyway

i guess it all depends where you are hunting. This may be true in the wide open spaces of the West but in the comparatively thick forests of the East - not so much. Two or three seconds is plenty of time for a good shot if you are still hunting or tracking. If you are on a stand, you will probably be afforded more time for the shot.
I think the average shot distance for my brother and I on deer over the past 40 plus years is 40 or 50 yards or less. The amount of time we have had to shoot varies but I'm sure it wasn't more then 3 or 4 seconds or less. We track when there is snow or still hunt when there is bare ground. We don't spend much time stand hunting.

You might be surprised to hear I hunt exactly the same way in Colorado, except i've never used a stand. Still hunting the thick timber since the late 40's for bear, elk, and mule deer. We have more than wide open country here.

 

[SEMAHunter]

You might be surprised to hear I hunt exactly the same way in Colorado, except i've never used a stand. Still hunting the thick timber since the late 40's for bear, elk, and mule deer. We have more than wide open country here.
Pete

Hi Pete,
Sounds like this style of hunting would be exciting hunting for bear,elk and mulies. I've read stories of hunting there in heavy cover.

We hunt mostly in northern Maine. By the time we get up there in mid November the black bears have already hibernated, so our only quarry are whitetail deer. I guess I just don't have the temperament to stand hunt. I'm always wondering what's on the other side of the next ridge.

The deer aren't very plentiful in northern Maine but exist in little pockets in the vast wilderness. You don't get a lot of opportunities so you have to take them when they appear.
I always wanted to hunt out West for elk and mulies but I think I have gotten too old for such a venture.

 

[long shot]

Slow and heavy sounds like a built in trajectory problem, sometimes you have like two or 3 seconds to get the job done right it might take that long for a 500 or 6oo grain bullet to get there.

If you only have 2-3 seconds to get the job done “right” you shouldn’t be taking a shot like that. My opinion anyway

2 to 3 seconds will put you at 1000 yds. in bullet flight that is slow and heavy. So you shouldn't take the shot any way even at 50 yds

 

[Muley Hunter]

You might be surprised to hear I hunt exactly the same way in Colorado, except i've never used a stand. Still hunting the thick timber since the late 40's for bear, elk, and mule deer. We have more than wide open country here.
Pete

Hi Pete,
Sounds like this style of hunting would be exciting hunting for bear,elk and mulies. I've read stories of hunting there in heavy cover.

We hunt mostly in northern Maine. By the time we get up there in mid November the black bears have already hibernated, so our only quarry are whitetail deer. I guess I just don't have the temperament to stand hunt. I'm always wondering what's on the other side of the next ridge.

The deer aren't very plentiful in northern Maine but exist in little pockets in the vast wilderness. You don't get a lot of opportunities so you have to take them when they appear.
I always wanted to hunt out West for elk and mulies but I think I have gotten too old for such a venture.

We're never too old. I'm 75 and still going strong. Come on out!

 

[bacass]

If you only have 2-3 seconds to get the job done “right” you shouldn’t be taking a shot like that. My opinion anyway

i guess it all depends where you are hunting. This may be true in the wide open spaces of the West but in the comparatively thick forests of the East - not so much. Two or three seconds is plenty of time for a good shot if you are still hunting or tracking. If you are on a stand, you will probably be afforded more time for the shot.
I think the average shot distance for my brother and I on deer over the past 40 plus years is 40 or 50 yards or less. The amount of time we have had to shoot varies but I'm sure it wasn't more then 3 or 4 seconds or less. We track when there is snow or still hunt when there is bare ground. We don't spend much time stand hunting.

I too still hunt in northern Maine, and you and most of us hunt alike. The new cutting practices are growing in the old clear cuts to mixed growth, which is good overall I think. With the 'Bucks only' rules now, that 3 seconds to ID and shoot is tough. Miss the old 'brown it's down' days.
I hunt the northern Moosehead region. Where do you and your brother go?

 

[sabotloader]

Of course I can only speak for myself - but I will take a streamliner all day over a freight locomotive. There is a reason there are more streamliners in the world than freight liners.

And in the next sentence - to each his own... ifn you like them big and slow use em!

 

[1874sharpsshooter]

Of course I can only speak for myself - but I will take a streamliner all day over a freight locomotive. There is a reason there are more streamliners in the world than freight liners.

And in the next sentence - to each his own... ifn you like them big and slow use em!

Hard to stop a freight train

 

[52Bore]

A few years ago I was curious to what a difference of 900 fps actually looks like- impact.
Tested
33gr CeeBee at 740fps
32gr CCI Stinger 1640fps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyGTOjNjqTo

 

[sabotloader]

Of course I can only speak for myself - but I will take a streamliner all day over a freight locomotive. There is a reason there are more streamliners in the world than freight liners.

And in the next sentence - to each his own... ifn you like them big and slow use em!

Hard to stop a freight train

But the old physics rule still applies - double the velocity - quadruple the energy