Long Distance Flintlock Rifles

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Matthew323

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I know that at least one member here, perhaps more, compete at sanctioned NMLRA matches at Friendship, Indiana.

I am interested in contact information for the shooter(s), using a flintlock heavy bench rifle to compete against the percussion inline rifles.

I need to inquire about the preference/choice of the particular flintlock locks being used, breech plug design, touch hole liner composition, the rate of enlargement in the touch hole, and other questions too numerous to mention.

I am still desiring to build a...

Lightweight hunting rifle...

1. Jim Kibler, round-faced, English flintlock
2. Tuned by Brad Emig
3. .45 caliber rifle barrel
4. 4140CM, certified gun barrel steel
5. Measuring 1.564" octagon at the breech
6. Scope bases machined directly into the top flat of the octagon breech (Talley)
7. 0.004" deep, square bottom grooves
8. 0.458" groove diameter
9. Fast twist (1:14" twist, or a 1-16" twist)
10. Octagon-round profile (16.5" long)
11. 0.09375" deep, radius crown
12. Externally threaded muzzle @ 3/4"-24
13. LR Customs, MZ REX2, muzzle brakes
14. Both lead conical & sabot brakes
15. Flint breech plug w/a 6" beavertail tang
16. a 5/8"-18 × 0.625" long thread journal
17. Single trgger (3.5# trigger pull)
18. Long trigger plate, double bolted to the tang
19. Sugar maple half stock w/straight grip
20. Squared off, Alexander Henry forearm
21. 3/8" diameter ramrod hole
22. Checkered wrist & forearm
23. Kick-eez Magnum recoil pad w/a
24. 12.750" length of pull
25. R.J. Renner folding tang rear sight
26. Coin silver front sight w/copper base
27. Talley, 30mm, high, Q-D lever, stainless steel, scope rings
28. Swarovski, Z6i, 2-12×50mm, BT, riflescope w/a 4A-I illuminated reticle (19oz)(540g)
29. GrovTec, GTHM289, 9/16"-18 threaded, black nitride stainless steel, push button, sling swivel bases
30. Combatex, steel, 1.5", recessed plunger, push button, sling swivels
31. Andy's Leather, 1.5" wide, custom, synthetic Biothane, Rhodesian sling w/S.S. hardware
32. Spartan Precision Equipment, brass, neodymium magnet, Classic Gunsmith adapters (2)
33. Spartan Precision Equipment, Ascent tripod w/Davis Pro ball head (3.6 lb)(1,635g)
34. Spartan Precision Equipment, Pro Hunt Tac bipod, standard length (7.6oz)(216g)

I suspect that a rifle such as described above would require the use of AMPCO bronze, 1/4"-28 threaded, touch hole liners, and that the liners would require being replaced on a fairly regular basis.

Fortunately, I already own a set/50 pin gages, w/minus tolerances, sized 0.011" to 0.060"; as well as a pin gage holder w/ collets on both ends. I can therefore easily check for touch hole liner wear, which I suspect increases exponentially as the bullet weight/powder charge increases.

Any help in putting me in contact with a shooter with flintlock experience shooting heavy lead conicals, or saboted bullets will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks so much,
Bruce
 

45-70

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Jan 8, 2019
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fist off you need to determine what match you want to compete in.
 

Matthew323

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Feb 15, 2020
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fist off you need to determine what match you want to compete in.
I am not desiring to compete at Friendship in any type of match. At least not any time in the near future.

I am simply seeking out a competitive, long distance, flintlock shooter, who might be willing to share some details on how I might go about the process of building a fast twist, .45 caliber, flintlock hunting rifle that could shoot .45 caliber lead conicals, or .40 caliber bullets in a .45 caliber plastic sabot.

All that I am trying to build/have built for me is a....

Flintlock hunting rifle...
That measures no more than 39" long...
Weighs no more than 7.5 pounds, all-up...
Has a .45 caliber fast twist barrel...
Can shoot lead conicals and sabots...
Is equipped with a pair of muzzle brakes...
Has the most effective recoil pad made...
Is breeched as simply as is possible...
Has threaded AMPCO touch hole liners...
Which can be easily swapped when worn...
Has an aperture rear sight for hunting...
Has an easily seen front sight...
Has scope bases integral to the barrel...
Has quick-detacheable scope rings...
Equipped with a German/Austrian scope...
German, #4 style, illuminated reticle...
Has flush, push button, sling swivel bases...
Has 1.5" wide, push button, sling swivels...
w/a synthetic, 1.5" wide, Rhodesian sling...

In other words, a flintlock version, of Col. Jeff Cooper's, .308 Winchester chambered, Scout Rifle.

I just want to correspond with someone that has experience shooting bullets in a fast twist rifle barrel.
 

45-70

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Jan 8, 2019
Messages
1,194
i know a fellow but he isn't much on internet, but he can hold his own out to 300meters. but he is a flintlock shooter period at offhand
iknow he uses an 18 twist and believe it was A Green Mountain but don't believe they make them anymore. Touch hole liner is what you have to master, believe he is running 90 grains or better.
 

Matthew323

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Joined
Feb 15, 2020
Messages
1,428
I could, and in all likelihood will, build/have built, a lightweight, fast twist, .45 caliber, sidelock, flintlock hunting rifle that comes as closely as possible to meeting the criteria for a Scout Rifle, as laid out in the writings of Col. Jeff Cooper.

The barrel that I have in mind will theoretically be capable of shooting, & stabilizing, the absolute longest/heaviest .45 caliber lead conicals, to include conicals weighing in excess of 500 grains.

However, super heavy bullets are not the everyday fare that I have in mind to shoot out of a rifle that I hope will weigh less than 7 pounds when loaded, and equipped with iron sights, a 19oz scope in quick-detacheable rings, sling swivels, and a synthetic, Biothane, Rhodesian shooting sling.

The everyday bullets that I have in mind to shoot would be lead conicals with a wide meplat weighing approximately 300 grains, and .40 caliber, muzzleloading specific bullets, shot out of the Harvester, light blue, .45 caliber sabot, weighing between 220-to-300 grains.

Between either of the LR Customs, MZ REX2 muzzle brakes (lead conical, or sabot); & the 1.375" thick Kick-eez Magnum recoil pad; and in conjunction with an English Sporting Rifle stock shape; felt recoil should be manageable for a shooter into his 80's.
 

45-70

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Jan 8, 2019
Messages
1,194
The fellows Name is Thelbert Mings, I'll see if I can get a picture of his
rifle
 
Joined
May 21, 2016
Messages
259
I could, and in all likelihood will, build/have built, a lightweight, fast twist, .45 caliber, sidelock, flintlock hunting rifle that comes as closely as possible to meeting the criteria for a Scout Rifle, as laid out in the writings of Col. Jeff Cooper.

The barrel that I have in mind will theoretically be capable of shooting, & stabilizing, the absolute longest/heaviest .45 caliber lead conicals, to include conicals weighing in excess of 500 grains.

However, super heavy bullets are not the everyday fare that I have in mind to shoot out of a rifle that I hope will weigh less than 7 pounds when loaded, and equipped with iron sights, a 19oz scope in quick-detacheable rings, sling swivels, and a synthetic, Biothane, Rhodesian shooting sling.

The everyday bullets that I have in mind to shoot would be lead conicals with a wide meplat weighing approximately 300 grains, and .40 caliber, muzzleloading specific bullets, shot out of the Harvester, light blue, .45 caliber sabot, weighing between 220-to-300 grains.

Between either of the LR Customs, MZ REX2 muzzle brakes (lead conical, or sabot); & the 1.375" thick Kick-eez Magnum recoil pad; and in conjunction with an English Sporting Rifle stock shape; felt recoil should be manageable for a shooter into his 80's.
I'm not sure what yer trying to achieve and why.

A .45 flinter hunter that's in the 7lb+ range will be a shoulder beater.

I load for and shoot a customized .45-70 chambered strictly for PPBs and thus is a virtual .45-90 with with 80+ grains of Swiss 1-1/2f under a 528 grain patched slick, and that 12-1/2lb rifle has some goodly kick that's mitigated with a KickKiller butt pad and a Past shoulder pad.
 

Matthew323

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Joined
Feb 15, 2020
Messages
1,428
I'm not sure what yer trying to achieve and why.

A .45 flinter hunter that's in the 7lb+ range will be a shoulder beater.

I load for and shoot a customized .45-70 chambered strictly for PPBs and thus is a virtual .45-90 with with 80+ grains of Swiss 1-1/2f under a 528 grain patched slick, and that 12-1/2lb rifle has some goodly kick that's mitigated with a KickKiller butt pad and a Past shoulder pad.
I want the versatility of interchangeable fast twist rifle, and patched ball rifle barrels, that can be used on the same stock by incorporating a hooked breech plug on the barrels.

In addition, my bullets are going to weigh from between 43%, to 58% less than the 528 grain, long range bullet that you are shooting. As a result, all other factors being equal, that means 43% to 58% less recoil.

I have no intentions of using any more ffg black powder than is necessary to cleanly kill a whitetail deer, black bear, or feral hog out to a maximum distance of 200m. I anticipate most shots being taken under 75 yards, as is the average in the United States.

A charge of 55 grains of fffg black powder is more than sufficient to send a 132 grain × 0.445" diameter pure lead, patched ball out to 100 yards with enough energy to make clean broadside shots on whitetail deer.

A 300 grain bullet, saboted .40 caliber, or lead conical .45 caliber, will not require a powder charge that will generate massive amounts of recoil. A 60-70 grain charge will sufficiently kill the big game animals listed above out to 200 yards quite easily.

The MZ REX2 muzzle brake is capable of reducing felt recoil by a factor of at least 35%. Especially, with sub-300 grain weight bullets. Combined with the Kick-eez Magnum recoil pad, the brake should mitigate felt recoil down to a very reasonable level. Recoil that an 85 year old hunter with arthritis should find manageable.

I will in all likelihood wear a Wild Hare Primer Mesh Shooting Vest with Ambidextrous ShockEater Recoil Pads.

Both at the range, and most importantly, while hunting.

My doctor wants me to shoot from both shoulders, swapping sides at a maximum of 10 shots on either shoulder.

I have osteoarthritis in all my joints, with my shoulders being the worst affected. As a result I am going to have the Wild Hare Primer Mesh Shooting Vest modified by a competant seamstress so that each side of the ambidextrous vest will accommodate 2 of the 8mm thick ShockEater pads.

A custom English Sporting Rifle half stock, with a negative comb angle, suitable for both a ghost ring rear sight mounted on the tang, as well as a Swarovski Z6i, 2-12×50mm, Ballistic Turret, rifle scope that has a German #4 style, 4A-I illuminated reticle (19oz).

With my lousy eyesight, I anticipate mostly using the scope in order to both practice shoot, and to hunt with. That being said, I require any scoped hunting rifle that I own to be equipped with a decent set of fixed, ghost ring, iron sights that are zeroed at 50m.

After a lot of research, and soul searching because of the cost, I finally settled on the Swarovski 2-12×50mm Z6i scope. At 19oz it is not the lightest possible choice, but the 5-6oz weight penalty over lighter scope choices, is well worth the better quality glass/coatings, plus the light gathering ability of a 50mm objective bell.
 
Last edited:

45-70

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Jan 8, 2019
Messages
1,194
have someone put you together a English Stalker in flint with hooked breech and with roundball and bullet barrel, not complicated except for mounting a scope
 
Joined
May 21, 2016
Messages
259
I want the versatility of interchangeable fast twist rifle, and patched ball rifle barrels, that can be used on the same stock by incorporating a hooked breech plug on the barrels.

In addition, my bullets are going to weigh from between 43%, to 58% less than the 528 grain, long range bullet that you are shooting. As a result, all other factors being equal, that means 43% to 58% less recoil.

I have no intentions of using any more ffg black powder than is necessary to cleanly kill a whitetail deer, black bear, or feral hog out to a maximum distance of 200m. I anticipate most shots being taken under 75 yards, as is the average in the United States.

A charge of 55 grains of fffg black powder is more than sufficient to send a 132 grain × 0.445" diameter pure lead, patched ball out to 100 yards with enough energy to make clean broadside shots on whitetail deer.

A 300 grain bullet, saboted .40 caliber, or lead conical .45 caliber, will not require a powder charge that will generate massive amounts of recoil. A 60-70 grain charge will sufficiently kill the big game animals listed above out to 200 yards quite easily.

The MZ REX2 muzzle brake is capable of reducing felt recoil by a factor of at least 35%. Especially, with sub-300 grain weight bullets. Combined with the Kick-eez Magnum recoil pad, the brake should mitigate felt recoil down to a very reasonable level. Recoil that an 85 year old hunter with arthritis should find manageable.

I will in all likelihood wear a Wild Hare Primer Mesh Shooting Vest with Ambidextrous ShockEater Recoil Pads.

Both at the range, and most importantly, while hunting.

My doctor wants me to shoot from both shoulders, swapping sides at a maximum of 10 shots on either shoulder.

I have osteoarthritis in all my joints, with my shoulders being the worst affected. As a result I am going to have the Wild Hare Primer Mesh Shooting Vest modified by a competant seamstress so that each side of the ambidextrous vest will accommodate 2 of the 8mm thick ShockEater pads.

A custom English Sporting Rifle half stock, with a negative comb angle, suitable for both a ghost ring rear sight mounted on the tang, as well as a Swarovski Z6i, 2-12×50mm, Ballistic Turret, rifle scope that has a German #4 style, 4A-I illuminated reticle (19oz).

With my lousy eyesight, I anticipate mostly using the scope in order to both practice shoot, and to hunt with. That being said, I require any scoped hunting rifle that I own to be equipped with a decent set of fixed, ghost ring, iron sights that are zeroed at 50m.

After a lot of research, and soul searching because of the cost, I finally settled on the Swarovski 2-12×50mm Z6i scope. At 19oz it is not the lightest possible choice, but the 5-6oz weight penalty over lighter scope choices, is well worth the better quality glass/coatings, plus the light gathering ability of a 50mm objective bell.
I wish you well on yer project - it's far too complicated for me to even wrap my head around all yer required parameters.
 

45-70

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Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Messages
1,194
your touch hole will determine , how much recoil, because you will have to make up the pressure loss through touch hole , so some of your theory isn't practical
 

Matthew323

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Joined
Feb 15, 2020
Messages
1,428
The rifle that I envision building is no more complicated than any other custom flintlock longrifle that I have owned in the past. PERIOD!!!!

In my opinion, it is far less complicated than any modern inline rifle that I have ever seen.

I just need to find a current builder who is completely familiar with flintlocks willing to step outside of his normal 17th/18th Century comfort zone.

So that elements of 18th Century technology...
(the French flintlock lock)

And, elements of 19th Century technology...
(Nock's flint patent hooked breech)
(6" long beavertail hooked tang)
(Long bar doubleset triggers that are double-bolted to the tang to strengthen the wrist of the stock)
(Threaded touch hole liners, originally made from platinum)
(English Sporting Rifle stock design that delivers minimal recoil to the shooter's shoulder, cheekbone, & face)...
(Fast twist, shallow groove, rifle barrel that will stabilize long for caliber, heavy lead conical bullets)
(Folding tang rear sights, such as the Lyman No. 2 & the Marbles Improved)
(Flip-up front sight such as the Lyman Beach)

And, elements of 20th Century technology....
(Flush-mounted, push button, sling swivel bases)
(Recessed plunger, push button, sling swivels)
(Col. Jeff Cooper's Scout Rifle concept)
(M1907 military sling)
(CW sling)
(Ching sling)
(Rhodesian sling)
(Lyman 57, tang-mounted, receiver sight)
(Williams FP, tang-mounted, receiver sight)
(Plastic sabots for shooting smaller-than-bore diameter bullets out of shallow groove, fast twist, rifle barrels)
(Steel, quick-detacheable, scope rings/bases)
(High quality, variable power, illuminated reticle, rifle scopes)

Along with elements of 21st Century technology....
(Neodymium magnet equipped, Spartan Precision Equipment, brass, Classic Gunsmith adapters/sockets, that will accept....)
(Any number of ultra-lightweight, carbon fiber/7075 aircraft-grade aluminum/stainless steel, bipod & tripods)

For myself, I require/demand a short, light, handy, ergonomic, friendly, low-recoiling, muzzleloading rifle that will allow me to inflict as little damage to my osteoarthritic shoulders as possible. Heavy rifles weighing in excess of 9 pounds have no place in my current, 67 years old life. Much less as I continue to age.

If such a rifle build as I am proposing ultimately ends up being too difficult to find a builder willing to consider working with me, then my next choice would be a flintlock version of a Doc White design, Javelina, two-handed, push-pull, sling-assisted, large caliber, patched ball, hunting pistol. Which will in all likelihood be just as difficult to find a builder willing to take on such an out-of-the-box build.

The problem that I have found to be absolutely prevalent (99% true) within the traditional sidelock muzzleloading community, is a total unwillingness to consider building anything other than duplicates of weapons that were actually used during the 16th, 17th, 18th, & 19th Centuries.

Top rated builders, some of them professional muzzleloading rifle builders, will pay lip service on the various forums that specialize in traditional sidelock muzzleloading guns, when it comes to discussing the needs of the shooter with horrible eyesight, weak muscles, arthritis in its many forms.

But, actually correspond by PM, text message, email, or telephone with any of these men (I have personally been in contact with over a dozen of these builders), as regards to accommodating the ageing shooter (myself) with a scope sighted, lightweight, short barreled, flintlock hunting rifle (I started out asking about patched ball shooting rifles); and the following are just some of the printable comments allowed on this forum....

No!
No way!
Find someone else!
That's an abomination!
Scoping a flintlock, that's just not right!
Why can't you just try a longer barrel/longer sight radius?
Why can't you move the rear sight forward/rearwards?
Why can't you use an aperture/peep rear sight?
Why don't you just buy an inline rifle?


This is just a very short list of the relatively polite comments that were directed towards me when I first started looking for a builder that would scope a flintlock over 2 years ago.

I was cursed at, made to feel less than, and rejected in a greater number of ways than I ever thought possible. All by men who had previously expressed sympathy for fellow members of their respective forums who had started threads concerning eyesight issues that they had. Or, the inability to any longer tote a heavy 8-12 pound, traditionally styled rifle around the woods.

In more than one instance, these ageing muzzleloading hunters/shooters simply quit doing what they loved because they could simply not find anyone within the traditional sidelock muzzleloading community that would help them.

And, they refused to shoot an inline rifle for a variety of reasons. Primary reason was an intense dislike for inlines. Irrational, but there you go. Second reason was that most modern inline rifles are simply too heavy, when scoped & slung, for the ageing muzzleloading hunter with strength issues.
 

45-70

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Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Messages
1,194
I gave you a name and a few suggestions and you ignored it so to me fell like you just want to rant
 
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Matthew323

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Feb 15, 2020
Messages
1,428
I gave you a name and a few suggestions and you ignored it so to me fell like you just want to rant
45-70

First, whenever I start a thread where I am requesting another member(s) help in answering a question that I do not understand/know the answer to, I always thank in advance the membership generally, or a person specifically for their/his anticipated help. Which I did at the end of my OP.

Second, I have suffered from both clinical depression, and various addiction issues all my life. Although I have managed to bring under control, one day at a time, my issues with alcohol and drugs, various OCD behaviors still plague me.

Third, at the head of the OCD List,, are computers, and over participating with online forums. Which includes Modern Muzzleloading. As a result of my OCD, I make it a point to try to limit myself to only certain times of the day, as well as the amount of time that I spend communicating on these forums.

Sometimes this means that I do not visit the forums that interest me for as long as 48-72 hours.

Fourth, I talk too much. It is perhaps my worst habitual behavior. Any one that has followed any of my posts/threads here on MM, knows this to be a fact. I love language, and if I can use 20 words, where 10 would be sufficient, then 20 it is. I am constantly battling myself to curb this.

Fifth, I have a regrettable tendency to go into Lecture Mode, aka a rant. I apologize to anyone that I might have offended in the past for this behavior, anyone that I have offended in this thread, and anyone that I might offend in the future.

Sixth, one of my pet peeves with people posting a response to an OP's question is a lack of specificity. if you want to correct my opinion, my concept of how I wish to build this lightweight hunting rifle, then please feel free to do so. But, please don't speak in generalities. Don't tell me my theory on back pressure vis-a-vis the pressure loss through the touch hole liner is incorrect, without offering a well thought out explanation as to exactly where my thinking is wrong. I am always ready to be corrected if my theorizing is wrong. I have no desire to build such a rifle without input from other shooters that have already walked the path that I wish to trod.

Seventh, as far as Mr. Mings name is concerned, you have not given me any means of getting in touch with him. No landline phone number, no cellphone number, no physical address, no zip code number, and no email address. I have no intentions of cold calling however many Thelbert Mings that I might pull off of the World Wide Web.

Eighth, thank you for what you have offered me thus far, but your information is incomplete, and does not give me sufficient data with which I can make an informed decision.

Bruce
 
Joined
Feb 4, 2020
Messages
99
The rifle that I envision building is no more complicated than any other custom flintlock longrifle that I have owned in the past. PERIOD!!!!

In my opinion, it is far less complicated than any modern inline rifle that I have ever seen.

I just need to find a current builder who is completely familiar with flintlocks willing to step outside of his normal 17th/18th Century comfort zone.

So that elements of 18th Century technology...
(the French flintlock lock)

And, elements of 19th Century technology...
(Nock's flint patent hooked breech)
(6" long beavertail hooked tang)
(Long bar doubleset triggers that are double-bolted to the tang to strengthen the wrist of the stock)
(Threaded touch hole liners, originally made from platinum)
(English Sporting Rifle stock design that delivers minimal recoil to the shooter's shoulder, cheekbone, & face)...
(Fast twist, shallow groove, rifle barrel that will stabilize long for caliber, heavy lead conical bullets)
(Folding tang rear sights, such as the Lyman No. 2 & the Marbles Improved)
(Flip-up front sight such as the Lyman Beach)

And, elements of 20th Century technology....
(Flush-mounted, push button, sling swivel bases)
(Recessed plunger, push button, sling swivels)
(Col. Jeff Cooper's Scout Rifle concept)
(M1907 military sling)
(CW sling)
(Ching sling)
(Rhodesian sling)
(Lyman 57, tang-mounted, receiver sight)
(Williams FP, tang-mounted, receiver sight)
(Plastic sabots for shooting smaller-than-bore diameter bullets out of shallow groove, fast twist, rifle barrels)
(Steel, quick-detacheable, scope rings/bases)
(High quality, variable power, illuminated reticle, rifle scopes)

Along with elements of 21st Century technology....
(Neodymium magnet equipped, Spartan Precision Equipment, brass, Classic Gunsmith adapters/sockets, that will accept....)
(Any number of ultra-lightweight, carbon fiber/7075 aircraft-grade aluminum/stainless steel, bipod & tripods)

For myself, I require/demand a short, light, handy, ergonomic, friendly, low-recoiling, muzzleloading rifle that will allow me to inflict as little damage to my osteoarthritic shoulders as possible. Heavy rifles weighing in excess of 9 pounds have no place in my current, 67 years old life. Much less as I continue to age.

If such a rifle build as I am proposing ultimately ends up being too difficult to find a builder willing to consider working with me, then my next choice would be a flintlock version of a Doc White design, Javelina, two-handed, push-pull, sling-assisted, large caliber, patched ball, hunting pistol. Which will in all likelihood be just as difficult to find a builder willing to take on such an out-of-the-box build.

The problem that I have found to be absolutely prevalent (99% true) within the traditional sidelock muzzleloading community, is a total unwillingness to consider building anything other than duplicates of weapons that were actually used during the 16th, 17th, 18th, & 19th Centuries.

Top rated builders, some of them professional muzzleloading rifle builders, will pay lip service on the various forums that specialize in traditional sidelock muzzleloading guns, when it comes to discussing the needs of the shooter with horrible eyesight, weak muscles, arthritis in its many forms.

But, actually correspond by PM, text message, email, or telephone with any of these men (I have personally been in contact with over a dozen of these builders), as regards to accommodating the ageing shooter (myself) with a scope sighted, lightweight, short barreled, flintlock hunting rifle (I started out asking about patched ball shooting rifles); and the following are just some of the printable comments allowed on this forum....

No!
No way!
Find someone else!
That's an abomination!
Scoping a flintlock, that's just not right!
Why can't you just try a longer barrel/longer sight radius?
Why can't you move the rear sight forward/rearwards?
Why can't you use an aperture/peep rear sight?
Why don't you just buy an inline rifle?


This is just a very short list of the relatively polite comments that were directed towards me when I first started looking for a builder that would scope a flintlock over 2 years ago.

I was cursed at, made to feel less than, and rejected in a greater number of ways than I ever thought possible. All by men who had previously expressed sympathy for fellow members of their respective forums who had started threads concerning eyesight issues that they had. Or, the inability to any longer tote a heavy 8-12 pound, traditionally styled rifle around the woods.

In more than one instance, these ageing muzzleloading hunters/shooters simply quit doing what they loved because they could simply not find anyone within the traditional sidelock muzzleloading community that would help them.

And, they refused to shoot an inline rifle for a variety of reasons. Primary reason was an intense dislike for inlines. Irrational, but there you go. Second reason was that most modern inline rifles are simply too heavy, when scoped & slung, for the ageing muzzleloading hunter with strength issues.
I enjoyed some of your rants, I think we all have then sometimes, my problem is I've had both shoulders replaced with titanium and I'm pretty scared of too much recoil. With this in mind, and not being real physically strong,, ( I'm over 80), I didn't want a real heavy rifle and I settled on a percussion made by traditions that weights 5.93 pounds, with a recoil pad, which I wanted to cushion the shots. It's a fiberglass stock which has got nothing to do with period Issues, them old trappers would've loved fiberglass stocks that weren't impaired by being wet. It's a 50 caliber, one in 48, and it has screws to mount a scope, but I chose a peep sight instead, my own design and building that fastens in the scope mount screws and extends back fairly close to the eye. Looks kind of weird, works like a charm, and I can even shoot it offhand a little bit. I believe I could have ordered the same thing in flint lock, but I have one and thought I would try a percussion. Hang in there, the naysayers don't affect me either.
Squint
 
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